Forums

Exceedingly forgiving averages.

• nowhammies 288 Posts

  Tue, Mar 29 2011 2:52 PM

  navigater:

  played a ledgend one day.checked his score hisl. not one game under36-72

  Some people were automatically promoted to tiers back some time ago.

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Tue, Mar 29 2011 3:30 PM

  Am I missing something? I'm basically in the same boat at GGO2, almost exactly the same average, at tour master tier since being assumed in the "Rapture" in September. Every game I try my best, and, yes, I WANT to make the legend tier. Because it's there. Then there will be a new set of challenges, which I welcome. If I have a good round (50%+ birdies), I chip away at the average, but it happens slowly. Why would someone want to score badly? I guess if you want to limit yourself artificially, you could stick to the starter balls, for example.

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Tue, Mar 29 2011 5:24 PM

  Yes, you are missing something : if an otherwise good player with lesser reflexes is artificially bumped up to the legend tier, which currently demands a fast meter master driver (at least the G10, 270y), that player will be put in a very frustrating situation. Why? Simply because he or she, by reason of those lesser reflexes (at home with the K15's or the Raptures, but not much more), will repeatedly wreck his or her game off the tee with miss hits. And after a while, you get downright sick of that. And the fun is largely spoiled.

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Wed, Mar 30 2011 2:04 AM

  I hope our new players are paying attention to this thread.  It is so important, from the very start, to understand how this game works to steer clear of situations like this.  I wish everyone appreciates, from the start, that advancing faster than a player's talent, abilities or skills can carry them, will only make the game harder and less enjoyable as we progress.  Yes, its true that WGT has a ways to go in instituting a viable handicap system, and a 270+ driver with a slow meter would be great (Not holding my breath for that to happen)...but until that happens it's up to us to do what is best for our own gratification.   

  If you are concerned about advancing too quickly, below is an expanded list of thing you can do to prevent this from the start...some ideas were mentioned in an earlier post, but it might bear repeating:       

  1.  Play all the courses.  Don't just play the easy courses to post low scores.

  2.  Play more 18 hole rounds and fewer 9 hole rounds.  Average scores will generally be higher because it is harder to be consistent for 18 holes.

  3.  Don't use the hottest balls.  The problem here is you may not be as competitive but it will surely keep scores higher.

  4.  Enter tournaments with harder conditions.  Harder conditions lead to higher scores but you will still be competitive as the conditions are harder for everyone.

  5.  Play in some single play tournaments.  Generally you will post higher scores if you only play once.

  6. Be mindful that playing too much in Country Club tournaments.  That's because CC tournaments are created by it's members and the conditions can be easier...which will also lead to lower scores and lower averages.

  7. Post all score.  Don't cherry pick your best rounds.

  Joey

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Wed, Mar 30 2011 2:20 AM

  Intelligent suggestions, Joey, no doubt. But again, we should not let them distract us from the core issues that I have brought up and expanded on in this thread. Also, in the current and cockeyed system, you only need the odd great score for your average to plummet dangerously, no matter how many mediocre ones you post. Consequently, in the end, your intelligent strategies may not prove that effective. 

  Now allow me to repost my previous comment, regarding your suggestions, which have undeniable merit, though limited and unsatisfactory impact.

  These suggestions "highlight my prevailing point. How so? The calculation of the average, by only factoring in the best scores, leads to artificially low averages, and forces good but not great players like me -- who cannot handle fast meter clubs and do not belong to the legend tier -- to devise twisted strategies to score poorly and avoid being bumped up to the upper and dreaded tier. I, for one, play in tour master conditions with K15 clubs or Raptures + Calloway balls, scoring decently, but definitely NOT well enough to warrant my crazy 61.xx average. So what, do I have to go further and resort to starter clubs and balls on the hardest courses to keep my average under control? This is not my idea of fun."

  "Note that this entire debate would become largely pointless if WGT issued a Raptures-like master driver (capable of at least 270y, with slow meter and great forgiveness), making the legend tier accessible to players with lesser reflexes. After all, there is a lot more to golf than good eye and hand coordination. It requires also, and perhaps predominantly, a good memory and a good judgment, backed by a good brain for math and geometry. Therefore, there could be so-called legends who would fare quite well with slow meter, forgiving clubs that are fit to handle legend tees. Other legends with great reflexes would still use the top performing super fast meter clubs. And everyone would be happy."

   

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Wed, Mar 30 2011 2:26 AM

  EDIT:

  I here you loud an clear.  But under the current conditions, you have to admit it is better to approach this with both eyes open.  My thinking is more of self preservation and doing what we can do on our end...since we can not control anything WGT does on their end.     

  I thought I was the only one that was up this late (Smile).

  Joey

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Wed, Mar 30 2011 4:27 AM

  Short of an actual solution, that WGT must imperatively provide for the multifaceted problem I keep harping on in this thread, your words are the best I've seen yet. 

  Incidentally, it's a pleasure being engaged in this discussion with you, Joey. You are evidently a fine man, and may your clear mind and warm heart be an inspiration to many!

• Heisman12 102 Posts

  Fri, Apr 1 2011 1:28 PM

  GGO, I certainly see the point you are trying to make, and agree that the scoring system should be adjusted.  That said, I respectfully disagree with part of your premise.

  You state: "I, for one, play in tour master conditions with K15 clubs or Raptures + Calloway balls, scoring decently, but definitely NOT well enough to warrant my crazy 61.xx average."  I think you are mistaken and are actually a better player than you give yourself credit for.

  I looked at your score history, and you are consistently 3-6 under on 9's and 5-10 under on 18's, even on the tougher courses.  To me, this is consistent with someone who has the game down pat at their current level.

  I also looked at your stats (and I understand that they are skewed because you had a previous ID).  However, you have a birdie/bogey ration of 8/1.  You have 87% driving accuracy and 85% GIR.  Your sand and scrambling %'s are 62% and 74% and you make 52% of your 1st putts.  These are outstanding statistics at any level (I wish mine were that good). 

  I understand your point that the legend tees might put these statistics at risk and lower your scores, but I'm pretty sure that someone with your skill level would adjust quickly enough, even given your stated product limitation.

  When I made legend a few months ago, I was hitting the ridiculously wild 278 yard SuperTri.  My scores were going over par far too often, mostly because I was missing too many fairways.  I switched to the R9 275 yard driver, which has a considerably lower swing meter than the SuperTri, although, obviously, not as slow as your K15.  My scores started coming down dramatically.  Of course, WGT came out with the R9 280 yard driver shortly thereafter, but that's another story (WGT always comes out with a better product the day after I buy new equipment.....I'm like a contrary indicator). 

  In a nutshell, I don't think you should "dread" making it to legend status.  Perhaps you might want to try out that 275 yard club.  Sure, with your "slower reflexes" you are going to miss the meter more often than now, but even if you are still in the fairway 70% of the time, the rest of your skill set suggests you are going to score just fine once you learn the longer approaches.

  Just for fun, though, I'm going to go rent your equipment set and play a few rounds from legend tees.  If I can't break par due to the distance shortfall, then I'll suggest you give that 275 yard driver a try.  If that doesn't work for you, then I'll agree that a slightly longer driver with slow meter speed is needed....but only for legends.

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:45 PM

  Jeez, lol, that is quite a detailed study of yours truly. And yes, I can hold my own in this superb game, but on condition that I use slow meter clubs. I know all the fast meter clubs for having owned most of them, and also know for an unpleasant fact that they exceed my abilities, especially now that my old, disabled body is more troublesome and distracting than ever.

  I currently have the whole i15 series just for the hell of it (just as I used to have the whole master TM series), and, when I do play with them, I keep piling pitiful evidence that I suck big time with them. And so, resignedly, I return to my good old K15's or Raptures.

  WGT, give me -- and everyone like me -- a slow meter, forgiving master driver capable of handling legend tees, and I will no longer dread this higher tier.

• Heisman12 102 Posts

  Sat, Apr 2 2011 10:33 AM

  GGO, I rented your clubs today and will test them out from legend tees.  K15 driver and irons.  I kept my slow meter 3 wood (rapture v2), my wedges, and putter.  Calloway Z ball.  This won't be a perfect test, since I don't know the feel of your irons on approaches, and my putting will obviously affect scores.

  1st game:  St. Andrews front 9, moderate wind.  I figured I'd start on the easiest 9.  Shot 1 under.  Missed 1 fairway and hit 78% GIR and had 14 putts (a couple rimmed out and unfamiliarity with the irons put me in different putting spots than I'm used to).  Only fairway missed was at #7, and there is no way you can reach fairway with K15 with any sort of a headwind.  I had a headwind on the par 5 and easily reached for birdie.

  Conclusion: Bad wind conditions would make both 2 and 7 unfair with your driver, meaning par would be a great score.  All the rest are probably manageable in almost any wind.