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Exceedingly forgiving averages.

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 7:42 AM

  "  In the past, the same thing was easy to accomplish by cherry picking the best scores.  Now, its a little harder to do."

  I mean no disrespect, but how can you say this with a straight face? In the past, the ability to cherry pick the best scores was indeed there, yet this foolish practice has become largely pointless since WGT does it for you automatically and artificially, much to my displeasure. So actually, it is incredibly easy to achieve a very low average by playing the odd great game, irrespective of the many mediocre ones you have also played. 

  As it stands my average is an utterly ridiculous 61.94 and dropping. As I said, I know full well that as long as there is no Raptures-like master driver (i.e., one with a slow meter and great forgiveness), I will not be fit to play from legend tees. And if I get artificially bumped up to that higher tier, I WILL BE SOME PISSED OFF INDEED.

• sixkiller 1,147 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 10:28 AM

  piztaker:

  SGTBilko:

  senior level competition would be nice but again, how would you stop the sandbaggers.

   

  By making it free, and giving it a title like the "Best Old Golfer Competition"

   

  I agree, a senior competition would be a welcome addition! As for the other concern, as you approach the needed average for the next tier, it becomes more and more difficult to lower your average, for example, with my 64.4 average, I have to shoot 32 or 63 to lower my average 1/100th of a point!! so if a player cant do that pretty regularly its going to be a long long time before he moves up. If a player can do it then they should move up! Hitemstr8!

• bearclaw27 553 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 11:20 AM

  You guys are forgetting 1 simple fact..

  We are playing a game, whereas wgt is running a business..In order for us to keep playing this game, wgt must keep making money..

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 12:34 PM

  "1.  Play all the courses

  2.  Play more 18 hole rounds and fewer 9 hole rounds

  3.  Don't use the hottest balls

  4.  Enter tournaments with harder conditions

  Joey"

   

  Excellent suggestions, indeed, that nevertheless highlight my prevailing point. How so? The calculation of the average, by only factoring in the best scores, leads to artificially low averages, and forces good but not great players like me -- who cannot handle fast meter clubs and do not belong to the legend tier -- to devise twisted strategies to score poorly and avoid being bumped up to the upper and dreaded tier. I, for one, play in tour master conditions with K15 clubs or Raptures + Calloway balls, scoring decently, but definitely NOT well enough to warrant my crazy 61.xx average. So what, do I have to go further and resort to starter clubs and balls on the hardest courses to keep my average under control? This is not my idea of fun.

  Note that this entire debate would become largely pointless if WGT issued a Raptures-like master driver (capable of at least 270y, with slow meter and great forgiveness), making the legend tier accessible to players with lesser reflexes. After all, there is a lot more to golf than good eye and hand coordination. It requires also, and perhaps predominantly, a good memory and a good judgment, backed by a good brain for math and geometry. Therefore, there could be so-called legends who would fare quite well with slow meter, forgiving clubs that are fit to handle legend tees. Other legends with great reflexes would still use the top performing super fast meter clubs. And everyone would be happy. 

   

   

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:34 PM

  SGTBilko:

  As for a slower meter, gents you can slow your meter down some buy looking at the number of feel dots on a ball.

  Just a trick I use with the free balls...try making at least one practice swing to judge the meter speed.  I find I can hit pretty close to the ding, even with my fast meter clubs.  Remember, all the farthest distance drivers have fast meters...you we'll need to get use to that to play in the Legends tier.   

  Joey  

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:31 PM

  Again, Joey, with all due respect, you are laboring obvious points and dispensing common knowledge that in the end change absolutely nothing to my initial grievance.

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 2:10 AM

  You made an excellent point in your OP GGO2.  Hopefully WGT will address this issue as well as the concerns of others that posted here.  And although it may be too late for us, your efforts may make the game more enjoyable for those that come after us. 

  GGO2:

  ...you are laboring obvious points and dispensing common knowledge that in the end change absolutely nothing to my initial grievance.

  My point regarding meter speed addresses some of the concerns you made in your OP (See  below).  While it may be true that my comment was obvious and common knowledge to some...to those that are inexperienced and like most of us, when we first started, struggle with understanding these things, it might be helpful.  At least that's what was on my mind as I wrote.       

  GGO2:

  To tell the truth, tour masters with mediocre reflexes are the ones who have the most to fear, since only the legend tier is so demanding that slow meter clubs like that the K15 and the Raptures cannot be used in full, or require the replacement of the driver with a fast meter one that would exceed their abilities and frustrate them to no end. 

  Please don't let this be the last comment on the OP...I'd like to here what others have to say.

  Joey    

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 2:37 AM

  " While it may be true that my comment was obvious and common knowledge to some...to those that are inexperienced and like most of us, when we first started, struggle with understanding these things, it might be helpful.  At least that's what was on my mind as I wrote."

  Fair enough, Joey. Your words are sound and welcome, thank you. My main concern was to keep people's eyes on the ball, so to speak; i.e., to not lose sight of my initial grievance, stated in my first post and further explained in my subsequent posts. I believe the line of argument in this grievance is rock solid and that WGT should urgently act on it. If WGT indeed tweaks the average system appropriately and issues a Raptures-like master driver capable of handling legend tees, I and a great many others will be very happy.

• borntobesting 9,767 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 3:29 AM

  Come on. Don't use age as an excuse. You don't have to be young to be able to play with faster meter clubs. And you don't have to be old not to be able to use the faster meter clubs. 

  Even with the I15's I can click the ding fairly consistently with just about any ball even the no feel balls. Shoot there are days when I click a little to early even with the no feel balls and I will be 65 in 2 months. I do normally now use the Callaway s ball because of the little extra distance and extra spin but i really have to pay close attention or i click way too early. If I can do it at almost 65 with eyesight that is not the best then anyone can.

  As for the artificially low average, don't forget 1 thing. It affects every player here the same., After the 50 or so rounds that it takes for you average not to be raised by a bad round then a really good round will drop your average. And when your average gets as low as your 61.94 or my 62.66 it does take a very good round for it to drop. And looking at you score history you do have some very very good rounds. I noticed quite a few 57's.That is very very good. 

• GGO2 27 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 5:51 AM

  Again, with all due respect, you are missing the target entirely. You are only tooting your own horn, while utterly ignoring the fact that you are not a universal yardstick. I personally, despite numerous and consistent attempts, CANNOT do what you apparently do with ease.The i15's are way beyond my abilities, save on exceptional days (when my old, disabled body is not weighed down by pain, fatigue, and other stresses), assuming I use balls with max feel. On most days but the worst, I can usually score decently with my K15's or Raptures. The few very low scores you mentioned were achieved with pro Raptures under pro tour conditions, which is far from extraordinary. 

  In short, the points I made in my previous posts still stand, strong and intact, your self-absorbed digression notwithstanding. And may life keep blessing you with great reflexes, among other boons!