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Losing forgiveness? Please: I need good advices

• cadornette 319 Posts

  Fri, Feb 24 2017 6:21 PM

  Hi guys. I want to ask something, or at least know if someone has ever had the same feeling. I changed my putter like three months ago (I had an old spider and bought the Oddisey Sabertooth L59+). As you may already know, this putt provides very good forgiveness. When I first started using it, I couldn't stop making great putts. No matter if I even missed the ding, the ball always took the correct path. Since last month, I don't feel the same I used to feel before. Looks like I have 0 forgiveness. E.G: I have a straight putt. Hit the right distance, but miss the ding by a millimeter, and the ball loses the right trajectory right after I hit the putt. Has someone experienced something like this? I'm not complanining, but it surprises me a bit. I would like to hear other opinions. Thank you in advance.

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Fri, Feb 24 2017 6:54 PM

  Pretty simple, really.

  Forgiveness means if you miss the ding it is likely to start closer to your intended aim line.

  Given that WGT have never really been able to explain what balance is, just that it is a linking factor between precision and forgiveness, a theory is this:

  Precision is not only how closely to your aim a dinged putt goes, but is also the degree of predictability that a missed ding goes a given amount off line.

  In a way, this makes precision an opposition to forgiveness, because along with high forgiveness increasing the chance of it going more towards your original aim line with a miss, high precision is making it go off line in proportion to how much you miss the ding.

  So I think balance is some linking factor in the equations that decreases the precision's opposition to forgiveness, ie. the higher the balance the more precision AND forgiveness you can have in tandem.

  Got it?

• whooshdangit 1,246 Posts

  Fri, Feb 24 2017 7:12 PM

  Hi cadornette

  Firstly, I'm no expert at putting! My stats or anybody who knows me will tell you that.

  The way I understand things here though, is that it's not just the forgiveness that you're feeling but more an issue of balance. 

  cadornette:

   Since last month, I don't feel the same I used to feel before. Looks like I have 0 forgiveness. E.G: I have a straight putt. Hit the right distance, but miss the ding by a millimeter, and the ball loses the right trajectory right after I hit the putt. 

  That is when a ball is struck on a given line (hopefully centre of the hole) how true it will stay to that line before it falls in. More balance it will hold the line better, less balance then less so.

  

  You say an "old spider" so I'm guessing here. While you do have more forgiveness, you have lost 0.5 off of the balance. It won't follow this line to the hole as well as the putter with a balance of 3.0.

  Or..    I could be completely wrong and just have no idea how to putt. If so I apologise and hopefully somebody will give you the correct answer. This is where you are feeling the difference though , I think.

  Cheers!

  Rich.

   

• whooshdangit 1,246 Posts

  Fri, Feb 24 2017 7:24 PM

  Hi

  jayw4862:

  In a way, this makes precision an opposition to forgiveness, because along with high forgiveness increasing the chance of it going more towards your original aim line with a miss, high precision is making it go off line in proportion to how much you miss the ding.

  So I think balance is some linking factor in the equations that decreases the precision's opposition to forgiveness, ie. the higher the balance the more precision AND forgiveness you can have in tandem.

  Got it?

  

  In other words "Whoosh can't putt". LOL

  Cheers!

  Rich.

   

• cadornette 319 Posts

  Fri, Feb 24 2017 10:23 PM

  Thank you very much. Well. Next time I should not only to look on forgiveness and meter speed, and pay more attention about balance. That must be the problem. Thanks again man.

  jayw4862:

  Pretty simple, really.

  Forgiveness means if you miss the ding it is likely to start closer to your intended aim line.

  Given that WGT have never really been able to explain what balance is, just that it is a linking factor between precision and forgiveness, a theory is this:

  Precision is not only how closely to your aim a dinged putt goes, but is also the degree of predictability that a missed ding goes a given amount off line.

  In a way, this makes precision an opposition to forgiveness, because along with high forgiveness increasing the chance of it going more towards your original aim line with a miss, high precision is making it go off line in proportion to how much you miss the ding.

  So I think balance is some linking factor in the equations that decreases the precision's opposition to forgiveness, ie. the higher the balance the more precision AND forgiveness you can have in tandem.

  Got it?

   

• Kenher01 1,151 Posts

  Sat, Feb 25 2017 1:37 AM

  whooshdangit:

  Hi cadornette

  Firstly, I'm no expert at putting! My stats or anybody who knows me will tell you that.

  The way I understand things here though, is that it's not just the forgiveness that you're feeling but more an issue of balance. 

  cadornette:

   Since last month, I don't feel the same I used to feel before. Looks like I have 0 forgiveness. E.G: I have a straight putt. Hit the right distance, but miss the ding by a millimeter, and the ball loses the right trajectory right after I hit the putt. 

  That is when a ball is struck on a given line (hopefully centre of the hole) how true it will stay to that line before it falls in. More balance it will hold the line better, less balance then less so.

  

  You say an "old spider" so I'm guessing here. While you do have more forgiveness, you have lost 0.5 off of the balance. It won't follow this line to the hole as well as the putter with a balance of 3.0.

  Or..    I could be completely wrong and just have no idea how to putt. If so I apologise and hopefully somebody will give you the correct answer. This is where you are feeling the difference though , I think.

  Cheers!

  Rich.

   

  Rich Is selling himself short, I once saw him make a putt, Well I think I did! ;)

• PhilEStein 1,269 Posts

  Sat, Feb 25 2017 1:56 AM

  What year was that Ken?

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sat, Feb 25 2017 2:07 AM

  Balance:

  Hit a putt bango dead straight (ding sound) it will travel at an OK speed no matter what the balance.

  Add in a break where exact weighting is important and this is where balance comes in, and this is especially so when you start using deeper meters.

  Most importantly know your putter  (all it's little idiosyncrasies).

• Kenher01 1,151 Posts

  Sat, Feb 25 2017 5:28 AM

  PhilEStein:

  What year was that Ken?

  Not sure Phil as It was that long ago but I reckon It will be the year 2525 If man Is still alive before Rich makes another! ;) Cue the music

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Feb 25 2017 6:40 AM

  jayw4862:

  Given that WGT have never really been able to explain what balance is, just that it is a linking factor between precision and forgiveness

  Balance is what keeps a putt from wandering off the line. It denotes the actual, physical  balance of the putter and definitely makes a difference.

  By way of an example, make a putter out of balsa wood and there is no balance at all-the whole putter is as light as a feather. You swing it through the ball and the ball will deflect the face on contact unless you have a death grip on the putter and rigid forearms or  the ball wanders offline.

  A putter with weight and balance just about swings itself, all you do is hold on and the weighted end doesn't get bothered by the ball, it just swings through it pendulum-style. The ball will tend to hold the line on longer putts. Balance in a putter is extremely important.