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Tiger, isn't this getting out of hand?

• oppy 286 Posts

  Sun, Nov 1 2009 3:13 PM

  it is the stupidest thing, tiger will have one bad event and everybody says he is finished. and then he puts on a world class performance at cog hill, or the memorial and the same people are suddenly calling him the best again. bottom line is, there has never been anybody as clutch, or as skilled. there is not a single person ever that could have hit the 8 iron tiger hit at bridgestone, from 180 yards, an 8 iron!!!, to inches away. who will tell me somebody else who could have hit a shot like that. you would be a liar if you try answering that question.

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Sun, Nov 1 2009 3:44 PM

  oppy:

  bottom line is, there has never been anybody as clutch, or as skilled.

  Oppy... as much as I can appreciate you sticking up for him, you have to realize that to compare Eldrick Woods to the golfers of yesterday is intellectually dishonest.  He may be, probably, the best golfer of our generation, of our time... but you can not put him in any era and claim that he is the best.   There is no way to tell.

  I wonder if Eldrick would be so good with the equipment Bobby Jones had to use... or how about Harry Vardon?  What about Ol' Tom Morris?  How 'clutch' do you think E. Tont Woods would be with a "Mashie" and a "Guttie" from 180 out?

  The Golf 100:  Ranking the Greatest Golfers of All Time:

  But who were the best? How do you compare the achievements of golfers in the era of the featherie ball, a sewn leather sphere stuffed with feathers, to the modern era of aerodynamically tested Surlyn balls and titanium-shafted clubs? How do you rank players who had different opportunities to win championships? Or those who competed before there were large money purses or, indeed, any at all?

  So.. bottom line.. I am not arguing that Mr. Woods is the best golfer "TODAY".  He has the hardware to prove it.  Should he finally surpass Mr. Nicklaus in wins AND 2nds, I may even give him the title of the best golfer in the last 2 generations...  but I will never offer the title of "Greatest Ever"...  There is no way to gauge that.  It's nothing personal against Mr. Elin Nordegren.... it's just, as I said, intellectually dishonest.

  Have a nice day.

• oppy 286 Posts

  Sun, Nov 1 2009 3:56 PM

  Snaike:

  oppy:

  bottom line is, there has never been anybody as clutch, or as skilled.

  Oppy... as much as I can appreciate you sticking up for him, you have to realize that to compare Eldrick Woods to the golfers of yesterday is intellectually dishonest.  He may be, probably, the best golfer of our generation, of our time... but you can not put him in any era and claim that he is the best.   There is no way to tell.

  I wonder if Eldrick would be so good with the equipment Bobby Jones had to use... or how about Harry Vardon?  What about Ol' Tom Morris?  How 'clutch' do you think E. Tont Woods would be with a "Mashie" and a "Guttie" from 180 out?

  The Golf 100:  Ranking the Greatest Golfers of All Time:

  But who were the best? How do you compare the achievements of golfers in the era of the featherie ball, a sewn leather sphere stuffed with feathers, to the modern era of aerodynamically tested Surlyn balls and titanium-shafted clubs? How do you rank players who had different opportunities to win championships? Or those who competed before there were large money purses or, indeed, any at all?

  So.. bottom line.. I am not arguing that Mr. Woods is the best golfer "TODAY".  He has the hardware to prove it.  Should he finally surpass Mr. Nicklaus in wins AND 2nds, I may even give him the title of the best golfer in the last 2 generations...  but I will never offer the title of "Greatest Ever"...  There is no way to gauge that.  It's nothing personal against Mr. Elin Nordegren.... it's just, as I said, intellectually dishonest.

  Have a nice day.

  Keep in mind Snaike, that courses are so much more difficult today. the greens are lightening fast, rough is incredibly thick, bunkers are deeper, a course can be made from a flat and boring piece of land into a dramatically sloping landscape (kingsbarns an example), and championship courses are 1,000 yards longer on average. it is not like they are playing the same course ol' tom morris was playing.

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Sun, Nov 1 2009 4:52 PM

  oppy:

  Keep in mind Snaike, that courses are so much more difficult today. the greens are lightening fast, rough is incredibly thick, bunkers are deeper, a course can be made from a flat and boring piece of land into a dramatically sloping landscape (kingsbarns an example), and championship courses are 1,000 yards longer on average. it is not like they are playing the same course ol' tom morris was playing

  You're absolutely right.. and thank you for illustrating my point brilliantly... Ie, EVERYTHING is different today than it was only 50 years ago... so there is really no point in trying to compare Tiger to anyone in Bobby Jones' generation... it just can't be done.

  Thank you for understanding. =)

• oppy 286 Posts

  Sun, Nov 1 2009 7:36 PM

  Snaike:

  oppy:

  Keep in mind Snaike, that courses are so much more difficult today. the greens are lightening fast, rough is incredibly thick, bunkers are deeper, a course can be made from a flat and boring piece of land into a dramatically sloping landscape (kingsbarns an example), and championship courses are 1,000 yards longer on average. it is not like they are playing the same course ol' tom morris was playing

  You're absolutely right.. and thank you for illustrating my point brilliantly... Ie, EVERYTHING is different today than it was only 50 years ago... so there is really no point in trying to compare Tiger to anyone in Bobby Jones' generation... it just can't be done.

  Thank you for understanding. =)

  you twist my words a little snaike. i meant more to say the challenged that golfers face today are greater. anyway, in you opinion, is there no greatest golfer of all time then?

• AndyJK 11 Posts

  Mon, Nov 2 2009 12:31 AM

  Snaike:

  I wonder if Eldrick would be so good with the equipment Bobby Jones had to use... or how about Harry Vardon?  What about Ol' Tom Morris?  How 'clutch' do you think E. Tont Woods would be with a "Mashie" and a "Guttie" from 180 out?

  But to the very same token, I wonder how good Bobby Jones would be with Tiger's equipment? Each player used the equipment of their time to play the courses of their time. Its impossible to gauge whether Tiger could be as good in the 70's or if Nicklaus could be as good in the 00's. Essentially they are both great players, which is why there is never a single worlds greatest golfer, only a list of them.

  But there is a current world number one, and his name is Tiga!

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Mon, Nov 2 2009 10:26 AM

  oppy:

  anyway, in you opinion, is there no greatest golfer of all time then?

  I certainly did not intend to twist your words, Oppy.  I think your post can describe my point and simply illustrates the differences between generations.

  To answer your question, we simply need to look at AndyJK's response:

  AndyJK:

  But to the very same token, I wonder how good Bobby Jones would be with Tiger's equipment? Each player used the equipment of their time to play the courses of their time. Its impossible to gauge whether Tiger could be as good in the 70's or if Nicklaus could be as good in the 00's. Essentially they are both great players, which is why there is never a single worlds greatest golfer, only a list of them.

   

  Please let me reiterate... I, personally, feel that Tiger is the very best golfer of our time, this current generation, and with today's technology there are none better.  And, should he surpass J. Nicklaus in wins and 2nds, I will entertain the argument that he is the best golfer of the last 2 generations....  but in golf there can never be a 'greatest of all time'.

  Besides, in 30 years or so, when the micro-nano technology makes seeing eye golf balls, plutonium charged drivers capable of hitting the ball 400yds on the Senior Tour, and courses that play over 10,000yds par 60, with greens so fast they could play hockey on them, there will be a young (wo)man who will surpass even Tiger's accomplishments and our (grand)kids can have this same argument we're having...

  It's all a matter of perspective, my friend... 

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:07 PM

  On day one of the 2008 US Open at Torrey Pines, I was standing in the gallery behind the 18th tee (5 par).  It was a great afternoon and everyone was enjoying the golf.  Next thing I know, I see this guy carefully walking up to the box and he gently presses a tee in the ground then places his ball on the tee.  Yes, there was a lot of that going on, no big deal.  Then, this guy proceeds to hit one of the longest and straightest drives I have ever seen...seriously, the ball looked like it was shot out of a cannon.  I watched that sphere until it nearly disappeared from view.  He grimaced after the shot and appeared to be in a great deal of pain.  Finally, this man turned and gingerly walked down the fairway on a broken leg.

  Joey 

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Fri, Nov 6 2009 7:27 PM

  This is all truly interesting. The only time I saw Tiger play, I was 8 yrs old. He was playing for Stanford in the Pac 10 Tourney at Big Canyon CC, Newport Beach CA. I remember being dumbfounded by how far all of the players hit the T-Ball. On a particular 5 par on the back nine, maybe 570 or so, slight downhill from the tee to an extreme uphill green, Tiger hit a drive so far and so perfect that my perfect 8 year old eyes were unable to see the landing. He was at least 60 to 80 yards past 3 other drives that were in the 270 to 290 range. His second shot was almost perfect to 7 feet which he made for eagle. He shot 61 that day. Still the course record at Big Canyon. My Father likes to point out to me that Tiger has never won at Riviera CC, a California course he has played many times since jr. golf days, and that the course record for the pros there, over four days, is owned by Lanny Wadkins at 264, since 1985. Of course I should add, my Dad loves Lanny Wadkins.

• donsprintr 2,063 Posts

  Tue, Dec 22 2009 2:53 AM

  oppy:

   there is not a single person ever that could have hit the 8 iron tiger hit at bridgestone, from 180 yards, an 8 iron!!!, to inches away. who will tell me somebody else who could have hit a shot like that. you would be a liar if you try answering that question.

  John Daly ... hits 7 irons about 190 and stops em on a dime when he's really on if memory serves me correctly ... i'm not trying to be a devil's advocate oppy ... tiger is really strong and can hit some amazingly long shots with his irons but so can some of the other tour pros ... most of them "play within themselves" throttling back on their distance ability to preserve accuracy ... tiger is a small man comparatively to most of the other tour pros (or was) and he has only recently begun cutting back on his distances for accuracy's sake ...  just loved it when i saw tiger hit a 2 iron off the fairway that went like 292 yds ... now THAT'S fantastic ...