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WGT Ryder Cup 2018

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 2:13 PM

  Finny I know from expieience that you're a very fair person and I think you're tring to be helpful. 

  You said earlier about cutting Simon some slack and letting him organise this, but since then you've either once or twice contradicted what he's trying to say.

  In the WC there was one round in particular where our opponents insisted on 90sec, and some used most of it, there were complaints in our forum but none were brought to your thread.  The fact you had 90sec there doesn't make it a wgt norm, Simon wanted the wgt default, 60sec.

  Simon has been accused of coming up with a rule to gain an advantage for his team, how would you feel if you were accused of that in the WC?  Would you then feel inclined to drop that rule?  That's what you're suggesting he does.

  It also seems to be a fairly common misconception here that he's changing a rule, he's not, there was no rule about shot clock he left it to players to sort out.  Too trusting? Maybe, silly? It seems so.

  As Mags has suggested we do so I'll leave the matter of him and Young to them to sort out.

• WaLk0fLiFe 285 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 2:15 PM

  quick question for fmags nvm I have an answer from birchi :)

   

  Jason did not put in any shot clock dispute to birchi. birchi says the reason for the 60 sec was a dispute between u and jason.

  If jason didn't make it I assume u did. When did u bring it up to birchi? was it immediately following your EL merion rd vs jason or was it  more recent after shank vs luis match was ended?

  Thanks, Jo

• frenchconnect 834 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 2:16 PM

  Thanks Mikkel, it was a great match. I think we both played really well and enjoyed the uneven lies experience this round provided us with. Frenchconnect wins 3 up

• PAULFINN52 3,174 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 2:39 PM

  you are right al

  it is simons comp and he should sort it out,im only trying to help with a suggestion im sorry about that,

  this wouldnt happen in the world cup as rules are set in place before the start of the comp so no i wouldbnt be inclined to drop any rule,

  90 secs is the norm as far as i know but i may be wrong yes? and the only problem with players sorting out shot clocks is we are all not the same,i like 90 secs but very rarely go over 60 but its a comfort in case i need it so leaving it to the players could get be tricky,

  plus i havent contradicted as i see it anything simon has said,i was merely trying to give some advice on this situation,

  as i said its simon comp and he will sort it im sure,

   

   

   

• WaLk0fLiFe 285 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 2:59 PM

  I will try and spell out what our issue is here.

  There is no shot clock rule anywhere before comp started. I assumed it ran off the same policy as the WC 90 sec unless players agree otherwise. I made the assumption they would just copy a proven successful format the WC has used as nothing else was clarified.

   

  Round 2 UEL of the comp started with one match result already posted. Mags messages birchi saying he anticipates an issue with him and jason agreeing to a shot clock. Jason wants 90, mags wants 60. 

  One hour after mags messages birchi, birchi announces the 60 sec shot clock rule.Keep in mind we already have 1 result posted at this point in the UEL round with no 60 sec rule announced.

   

  so how does this look? mags makes his request and within an hour there is a 60 sec rule announced part of the way through the current round? how would u interpret this as a ROW player?

  If you can't see my point here then well..idk what to say lol

   

  I understand birchi was in a difficult scenario and I do no envy his situation one bit. I think this was handled poorly to say the least and I think it should be called out.

  unfortunate circumstance.

• birchi 1,492 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 3:02 PM

  Yes, I appreciate the input, Paul. You have the most experience of any of us with these kinds of things.

  To (hopefully) put an end to this: In my opinion everyone should try to accommodate their opponent when it comes to the shot clock setting as well as possible. So far I think every minor disagreement over the shot clock has resulted in using the 90-second option and I would be the last to complain if it stayed this way. 

  I merely wanted to set a safety net in case two players reach an impasse which appears to be a real threat in the match between mags and Jason. 60 seconds is the default setting of WGT and a very reasonable middle ground in my opinion. Finny might handle things differently in the world cup, which is fine, but if you take a look at the title of the thread you will notice that this is a different tournament. I should have done this at the start of the tournament, but as Alan pointed out in this thread and several discussions in our club forum, I can be a little naive at times and I was expecting everyone would be able to work it out among themselves :)

• birchi 1,492 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 3:20 PM

  WaLk0fLiFe:

  so how does this look? mags makes his request and within an hour there is a 60 sec rule announced part of the way through the current round? how would u interpret this as a ROW player?

  Mags did not make a 'request' of any kind. He asked me how to handle the expected trouble (which then immediately materialized) which got me to reconsider my initial thinking that there was no need for a rule regarding a shot clock.

  Yes, I did decide to go with mags' preferred option, but not to gain our team any advantage. As 90 seconds is the upper end of the spectrum and, frankly, a ridiculously long time for one shot, I decided that for these cases the WGT standard of a 60-second shot clock would be the best solution.

  The ideal scenario would be for the two of them to come up with a compromise and mags has made an effort in that direction. I'm sure they can work something out, they're both very reasonable people. 

• WaLk0fLiFe 285 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 3:27 PM

  I am just saying how it looks to our side.

  Mags messages u with shot clock concerns. Mags wants 60, jason wants 90. 1 hour after mags voices his concerns the 60 sec rule (the time he wanted) becomes the rule part way through the round.

   

  regardless of the intentions it does not look to good from our side is the point.

   

• fmagnets 3,640 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 3:30 PM

  WaLk0fLiFe:

  mags makes his request

  No such request was made. Simply a query about whether there was a rule in place or not. Perhaps you would like to alter your choice of words.

  And for the avoidance of doubt, my preferred option would actually be 30 or 45s. I recognise this would be unfair on many opponents so is not something I would ever suggest unless I thought the opponent might be up for it.

• WaLk0fLiFe 285 Posts

  Tue, Nov 13 2018 3:35 PM

  fmagnets:

  WaLk0fLiFe:

  mags makes his request

  No such request was made. Simply a query about whether there was a rule in place or not. Perhaps you would like to alter your choice of words.

  And for the avoidance of doubt, my preferred option would actually be 30 or 45s. I recognise this would be unfair on many opponents so is not something I would ever suggest unless I thought the opponent might be up for it.

   

  not saying it was meant as an actual request im saying how it looks to ROW how we could interpret it like a request.

  PM made about clock.1 hour later 60 sec clock rule part way through a round (60 sec happens to be ur pref)....surely u must see how that looks to the other side lol