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Sandbagging

Thu, Oct 20 2011 10:47 AM (35 replies)
  • Pryke
    295 Posts
    Thu, Oct 6 2011 3:58 PM

    I always promised myself I wouldn't get involved in the cheats/sandbaggers posts but....

    I just played Alt.shot with 3 players:

    L47 Hack Avg. 74.0

    L47 Amateur Avg. 72.9

    L31 Amateur Avg. 81.1

    I was paired with the L31 Am and I believe its was genuine as he never hit the green and really struggled with the tournement speed greens. The 2 L47's hit 5 birdies in 6 holes?! Really?! I know they would play from shorter tee's but not way can a hack find tournement greens that easy, surely???

    But then maybe I'm reading too many of this type of post and these are just genuine players who don't like stroke play, prefering the social side of Alt.shot and Matchplay...who knows

    Cheers

    P

  • Glas67
    117 Posts
    Thu, Oct 6 2011 4:58 PM

    FuzzyBallz:

    I have seen a TON of THESE POST about SANDBAGGERS.

    Your rant could have stopped there to be honest, you simply didn't address what is a real problem in the game.

    Why should a player play off a shorter tee with better (longer) clubs, than a player playing off a longer tee?  Where is the fairness in it?  At what point does the game become unplayable?  Why not just have Amateurs playing with 280yd drivers?

    It simply doesn't make sense.

     

  • bittydog
    623 Posts
    Thu, Oct 6 2011 6:14 PM

    FuzzyBallz:

    I have seen a TON of THESE POST about SANDBAGGERS.

    Here is what makes me scratch my head - I seen all of them that get beat by somebody that they feel had no way of beating them in the first place, get mad because they got out played and/or i.e. OUT THOUGHT.

    The movie Tin Cup comes to mind here / Player says to other player, I bet you I can hit the ball farther then you can. Of course he gets upset, says no you can't and I will prove it. First Pro tees up smacks it out done the practice fairway, the second Pro turns and hits his ball out on to the driveway to clubs where he turns and smile while saying looks like mine is rolling farther then you did.

    Hence leads to my point on this whole SANBAGGER out cry, and demand that something be done to bring it to a stop.

    Well what are you going to do? Get mad and stop playing all together, lol not hardly, you like the game to much for all of that now don't you? But not a single one of you that thinks you are un-beatable by a lower tiered player thinks you should get beat by someone - who has figured out hit it down the DRIVEWAY - to smoke you bad.

    And yes just like fvictor / Glas67 / and myself have learned when playing these SO CALLED fair tourneys where we are at in the grand scheme of things places us in the GAP of a level playing system. My first match up in tourney partner and I was paired against like teed players, where we teetered back and worth ended up winning by 3 strokes - in a strokes play tourney. Just played our next pairing of partners where we was paired against Legends both having average scores in the low 60's partner and I having averages of 70 and 77. 

    How many of you think we had a chance to beat the Legends on Bethpage Black, they having the best of everything they could get. Yeah you are right, we got smoked by more then 10 strokes. Out of the Tee Boxes they are hitting 310 plus / we hit 254 to 268 respectfully from the Pro - Tour Pro boxes. Their second shots coming in to tourney speed greens sticking like glued, ours coming in like a ball bearing tossed on a concrete pad. Every shot they made on to greens stuck like darts inside 12 feet of cup, ours hit bounce, bounce trickle roll final stop green edges or ruff. Was it close not really, was crazy to watch a player hitting from 20 to 40 yards behind me out drive me by more then 40 yards every shot he had to that was insane 333 was one the other was 340 plus. Remember I said we got beat by more the 10 strokes that was each of us not a team total - team total was 25 strokes over or under depending on how you would like to say it, point is we lost, we took our beat down and moved on, we are knocked out of the tourney play because we did not keep our scores low enough to win pairings.

    And you all cry that the field needs to be leveled to make it "FAIR FOR EVERYBODY" but if I come in and shoot a round that is 10 to 15 strokes BELOW my average score - I AM CHEATING, I HAVE TO BE CHEATING but that is what I have to shoot TO WIN with the way it is set-up.

    FOR ALL OF US GETTING SMOKED DO YOU SEE US MAKING 50 PLUS TOPICS ABOUT IT saying how it is not fair, or our opponent HAD to be CHEATING, no you don't.
    We take our beatings and go on, still wish all you guys a good game and good luck, and just because I don't stroke your EGO because you can stick a shot from 150 plus out like a dart board, do I really need to stroke your ego for that? I mean after all you paid the money to get those results so why do I need to stroke your ego and give you a pat on the back for doing what I can't because the GEAR IS NOT open for me to have.

    And the next time you guys get SMOKED by a low tiered player - just remember all those times you beat your opponent of a lesser tier by more then 10 strokes, and felt good about doing it. Karma is a funny thing it always has a way of finding it's way back.

    That figured out a way to hit it down the driveway / big deal. Maybe their needs to be more thought on how to keep the game fun and less on how to allow select players to buy gears that only they can use, so they can hit 340 plus yard drives, bounce them off rocks and other objects to gain distance. Do you do it in real life like that? Who is it that says "The Most Realistic Golf Game On The Market".

    I have plenty more I could go on about / but does anybody really give 2 flying flips about any of it? Not likely .....

    well said, well said. I play Wgt because it's fun! I like to play others just to see how other people play.  Do I win? sometimes.. Do I loose??  more often than I care to admit.  Does it bother me to loose to someone that may or may not be using the "loopholes" to win??  not really. Like I said I'm here because it's fun. Even when I'm having a really bad game I'm still having fun, The day it stops being fun is the day I delete my account. So come on people lighten up, it is what it is. Tee up smack your ball, play YOUR game and enjoy!  FUORRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

     

     

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 12:14 AM

    FuzzyBallz:

    I have seen a TON of THESE POST about SANDBAGGERS.

    Here is what makes me scratch my head - I seen all of them that get beat by somebody that they feel had no way of beating them in the first place, get mad because they got out played and/or i.e. OUT THOUGHT.

    The movie Tin Cup comes to mind here / Player says to other player, I bet you I can hit the ball farther then you can. Of course he gets upset, says no you can't and I will prove it. First Pro tees up smacks it out done the practice fairway, the second Pro turns and hits his ball out on to the driveway to clubs where he turns and smile while saying looks like mine is rolling farther then you did.

    Hence leads to my point on this whole SANBAGGER out cry, and demand that something be done to bring it to a stop.

    Well what are you going to do? Get mad and stop playing all together, lol not hardly, you like the game to much for all of that now don't you? But not a single one of you that thinks you are un-beatable by a lower tiered player thinks you should get beat by someone - who has figured out hit it down the DRIVEWAY - to smoke you bad.

    And yes just like fvictor / Glas67 / and myself have learned when playing these SO CALLED fair tourneys where we are at in the grand scheme of things places us in the GAP of a level playing system. My first match up in tourney partner and I was paired against like teed players, where we teetered back and worth ended up winning by 3 strokes - in a strokes play tourney. Just played our next pairing of partners where we was paired against Legends both having average scores in the low 60's partner and I having averages of 70 and 77. 

    How many of you think we had a chance to beat the Legends on Bethpage Black, they having the best of everything they could get. Yeah you are right, we got smoked by more then 10 strokes. Out of the Tee Boxes they are hitting 310 plus / we hit 254 to 268 respectfully from the Pro - Tour Pro boxes. Their second shots coming in to tourney speed greens sticking like glued, ours coming in like a ball bearing tossed on a concrete pad. Every shot they made on to greens stuck like darts inside 12 feet of cup, ours hit bounce, bounce trickle roll final stop green edges or ruff. Was it close not really, was crazy to watch a player hitting from 20 to 40 yards behind me out drive me by more then 40 yards every shot he had to that was insane 333 was one the other was 340 plus. Remember I said we got beat by more the 10 strokes that was each of us not a team total - team total was 25 strokes over or under depending on how you would like to say it, point is we lost, we took our beat down and moved on, we are knocked out of the tourney play because we did not keep our scores low enough to win pairings.

    And you all cry that the field needs to be leveled to make it "FAIR FOR EVERYBODY" but if I come in and shoot a round that is 10 to 15 strokes BELOW my average score - I AM CHEATING, I HAVE TO BE CHEATING but that is what I have to shoot TO WIN with the way it is set-up.

    FOR ALL OF US GETTING SMOKED DO YOU SEE US MAKING 50 PLUS TOPICS ABOUT IT saying how it is not fair, or our opponent HAD to be CHEATING, no you don't.
    We take our beatings and go on, still wish all you guys a good game and good luck, and just because I don't stroke your EGO because you can stick a shot from 150 plus out like a dart board, do I really need to stroke your ego for that? I mean after all you paid the money to get those results so why do I need to stroke your ego and give you a pat on the back for doing what I can't because the GEAR IS NOT open for me to have.

    And the next time you guys get SMOKED by a low tiered player - just remember all those times you beat your opponent of a lesser tier by more then 10 strokes, and felt good about doing it. Karma is a funny thing it always has a way of finding it's way back.

    That figured out a way to hit it down the driveway / big deal. Maybe their needs to be more thought on how to keep the game fun and less on how to allow select players to buy gears that only they can use, so they can hit 340 plus yard drives, bounce them off rocks and other objects to gain distance. Do you do it in real life like that? Who is it that says "The Most Realistic Golf Game On The Market".

    I have plenty more I could go on about / but does anybody really give 2 flying flips about any of it? Not likely .....

     

    Fingers sore after that one?  Get the gist of the OP's post, save the sermons for Sundays.

     

  • salamii
    1,058 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 12:59 AM

    MBaggese:

    FuzzyBallz:

    I have seen a TON of THESE POST about SANDBAGGERS.

    Here is what makes me scratch my head - I seen all of them that get beat by somebody that they feel had no way of beating them in the first place, get mad because they got out played and/or i.e. OUT THOUGHT.

    The movie Tin Cup comes to mind here / Player says to other player, I bet you I can hit the ball farther then you can. Of course he gets upset, says no you can't and I will prove it. First Pro tees up smacks it out done the practice fairway, the second Pro turns and hits his ball out on to the driveway to clubs where he turns and smile while saying looks like mine is rolling farther then you did.

    Hence leads to my point on this whole SANBAGGER out cry, and demand that something be done to bring it to a stop.

    Well what are you going to do? Get mad and stop playing all together, lol not hardly, you like the game to much for all of that now don't you? But not a single one of you that thinks you are un-beatable by a lower tiered player thinks you should get beat by someone - who has figured out hit it down the DRIVEWAY - to smoke you bad.

    And yes just like fvictor / Glas67 / and myself have learned when playing these SO CALLED fair tourneys where we are at in the grand scheme of things places us in the GAP of a level playing system. My first match up in tourney partner and I was paired against like teed players, where we teetered back and worth ended up winning by 3 strokes - in a strokes play tourney. Just played our next pairing of partners where we was paired against Legends both having average scores in the low 60's partner and I having averages of 70 and 77. 

    How many of you think we had a chance to beat the Legends on Bethpage Black, they having the best of everything they could get. Yeah you are right, we got smoked by more then 10 strokes. Out of the Tee Boxes they are hitting 310 plus / we hit 254 to 268 respectfully from the Pro - Tour Pro boxes. Their second shots coming in to tourney speed greens sticking like glued, ours coming in like a ball bearing tossed on a concrete pad. Every shot they made on to greens stuck like darts inside 12 feet of cup, ours hit bounce, bounce trickle roll final stop green edges or ruff. Was it close not really, was crazy to watch a player hitting from 20 to 40 yards behind me out drive me by more then 40 yards every shot he had to that was insane 333 was one the other was 340 plus. Remember I said we got beat by more the 10 strokes that was each of us not a team total - team total was 25 strokes over or under depending on how you would like to say it, point is we lost, we took our beat down and moved on, we are knocked out of the tourney play because we did not keep our scores low enough to win pairings.

    And you all cry that the field needs to be leveled to make it "FAIR FOR EVERYBODY" but if I come in and shoot a round that is 10 to 15 strokes BELOW my average score - I AM CHEATING, I HAVE TO BE CHEATING but that is what I have to shoot TO WIN with the way it is set-up.

    FOR ALL OF US GETTING SMOKED DO YOU SEE US MAKING 50 PLUS TOPICS ABOUT IT saying how it is not fair, or our opponent HAD to be CHEATING, no you don't.
    We take our beatings and go on, still wish all you guys a good game and good luck, and just because I don't stroke your EGO because you can stick a shot from 150 plus out like a dart board, do I really need to stroke your ego for that? I mean after all you paid the money to get those results so why do I need to stroke your ego and give you a pat on the back for doing what I can't because the GEAR IS NOT open for me to have.

    And the next time you guys get SMOKED by a low tiered player - just remember all those times you beat your opponent of a lesser tier by more then 10 strokes, and felt good about doing it. Karma is a funny thing it always has a way of finding it's way back.

    That figured out a way to hit it down the driveway / big deal. Maybe their needs to be more thought on how to keep the game fun and less on how to allow select players to buy gears that only they can use, so they can hit 340 plus yard drives, bounce them off rocks and other objects to gain distance. Do you do it in real life like that? Who is it that says "The Most Realistic Golf Game On The Market".

    I have plenty more I could go on about / but does anybody really give 2 flying flips about any of it? Not likely .....

     

    Fingers sore after that one?  Get the gist of the OP's post, save the sermons for Sundays.

     

    Why not once more for the hell of it.

     

  • FuzzyBallz
    179 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 1:27 AM

    hehehe see that is the funny thing it does not matter really which angle you approach it from, there just is not an easy end all be all answer to this.

    Yeah I got the gist of the OP - the OP kind of seen where what I posted made some merit.
    But weather he did or did not, does not really make an easy answer to the "is there a way to change that will fix it" without making it to difficult for most players.

    With only a level required for clubs - it makes it easy for people to move up to better clubs to help them improve. This also makes it easier for some or most to be taken advantage of by another player.

    By placing a level required to attain clubs and or balls - yes it closes the door to the problem, but does it help the most players by doing so? More times then not no, my self as example if I had to wait til I had the level and tier required to get the gear I have I would not be where I am on the curve of progressing.

    Then if you look at marketing it, how does it look to the buyer? More of a catch 22 then what some of us might want to see. All we have to do is look which way it swings to see which feels they are getting the shaft, make it to easy for the lower tier or lower levels, those that have put in the time get burned. Making the skill more difficult you will hear it needs to be easier, or make it so we can get there faster.

    I play as I have stated on other topics for the Alt shot social side of the game, not for the open tourneys, not for the pay out tourneys either. Can't afford to just give money away because I know where I play at, hence why I know it is better to stay away from tourney play. I am fine with playing bogey golf if that is all the more I want to do is play Alt shot, Par to Bogey golf is just fine for that type of play.

    Some are after the best score they can get, some are after the highest level, while some just want to bang out a round of golf with friends. WGT is trying to find away to make all of us happy at the same time, which they do - do a pretty good job at we keep coming back day in and day out.

    They could just put all of us in the same tee box with the same gear, and let us battle it out. That could be fun  .............. but then again maybe not.

  • eurantia
    318 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 2:45 AM

    Glas67:

    FuzzyBallz:

    I have seen a TON of THESE POST about SANDBAGGERS.

    Your rant could have stopped there to be honest, you simply didn't address what is a real problem in the game.

    Why should a player play off a shorter tee with better (longer) clubs, than a player playing off a longer tee?  Where is the fairness in it?  At what point does the game become unplayable?  Why not just have Amateurs playing with 280yd drivers?

    It simply doesn't make sense.  Can i get an amen!!! Well put G

     

     

  • Pryke
    295 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 4:30 PM

    If they cut the amount of XP points for Matchplay/Alt.shot (say to a tenth '1/10' of what it is currently) and increase the amount of points for ranked stroke rounds would this solve sandbagging?

    It would certainly stop, or at least seriously hinder,  lower tiers having equipment well beyond their tee distance (see my previous post on this topic) without playing ranked rounds.

    Cheers

    P

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 6:17 PM

    Pryke:
    If they cut the amount of XP points for Matchplay/Alt.shot (say to a tenth '1/10' of what it is currently) and increase the amount of points for ranked stroke rounds would this solve sandbagging?

    It might help but it would also penalize the 98% honest players who, under that system, would tier up with far less levels than they now have.  I know they already can tier up with less levels needed to buy longer clubs to match the longer tees, so that system could make it worse.

    Better to include Match play and AS data in the tier promotion criteria along with # of ranked rounds and "average".

  • Glas67
    117 Posts
    Fri, Oct 7 2011 8:27 PM

    andyson:

    Better to include Match play and AS data in the tier promotion criteria along with # of ranked rounds and "average".

     

    Short of changing club selection to a tier-based system, which seems highly unlikely, this would seem to be the best solution.

    Seen it happen again tonight, playing against a level 83 "pro".  Seriously, wtf???  It was an AS game and we were getting tag-teamed by a husband and wife combo, with the wife sandbagging.

     

    A 'pro' at lvl 83 is just taking it to extremes.

     

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