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High Wind / High Stakes RG's

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Mon, Nov 7 2011 6:05 AM (34 replies)
  • kam4122
    1,695 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 6:02 AM

    I played the 1000 credit RG on RSG yesterday, and despite the meter stopping on me on the 15th sending the ball miles left into a thickett and a resulting scrambled bogey later, I managed to post a 59, which I was delighted with considering I had a brutal wind set, which put 2 long par 4's out of range in two shots (4th and 15th), and both par 5's out of range in two.

    I checked the result today and Bollox just pipped my 59 with an astounding 53!!! Absolute cracker of a round in high wind from the tips, am full of admiration.

    However it did get me thinking... in high stakes RG's on a skill based gaming site, should the wind set in such a round be common for everyone? I reckon (others may disagree) that a dream wind set versus a brutal wind set on RSG is probably worth 5 or 6 shots stood on the first tee, maybe even more.

    As a product suggestion, should WGT roll out a RG which has common conditions for every player or at least a very narrow set of variables so everyone gets roughly the same? For example, one player may get a 27mph wind at 11 oclock while another gets a 26mph wind at 12 oclock on the same hole, so while the winds and direction may be slightly different they are not different enough to produce a competitive advantage or disadvantage.

    In these high stakes RG's are common conditions essential? Would the same small group of players win them all the time?

    Looking forward to all and any opinion and discussions on the subject!

  • PRIESTESS
    10,721 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 6:27 AM

    kam4122:
    However it did get me thinking... in high stakes RG's on a skill based gaming site, should the wind set in such a round be common for everyone? I reckon (others may disagree) that a dream wind set versus a brutal wind set on RSG is probably worth 5 or 6 shots stood on the first tee, maybe even more.
    This is why i wont enter high stakes high wind comps,Its not fair at all is it? I entered this yesterday without looking at the conditions,It wont happen again lol,.I had a 28 cross wind move half way across the Equator LOL

  • Penners
    1,707 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 6:29 AM

    Hi Monty, I've lost count how many times this topic has come up, but for good reason... 

    Although I'm sure over a long period of time the wind evens out for players, it does seem particularly unfair in high stake RG's / Prize tournaments (Opens / Fall Championships etc.) when you get a difficult wind-set. I agree 5 or 6 shots is about right - in a highly competitive game, that's a huge difference.

    I like your product suggestion - there was something similar suggested at the time of The Open - someone suggested having a similar wind-set for each player, where the wind varies on each hole by say 3-4mph and by 3-4 hours on the clock-face. Hopefully this would not give any great advantage to people sharing information with regards to clubs and at the same time the winds would be similar enough for a 'fair' contest.

    I'm not sure how practical this is from a programming perspective, but surely it's fairer for all players?

  • kam4122
    1,695 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 7:23 AM

    Thanks for the comments, I think in open champs etc, where it is multi-round some variation is acceptable to mitigate the possibility that people could share information / practice similar set up, but think surely the smart people at WGT could even it out over 36 holes to ensure everyone gets a similar number of par 5's in range, everyone gets one par 4 that is out of range etc just as a couple of examples.

    I played the RSG 1000 credit again today, and arguably played even better today than I did yesterday, and 'only' shot a 62, I say 'only' because someone will romp in with a mid 50 something. Today my round put the 'B' in the term brutal wind. I had 14 holes with wind against, average 30mph, of the four holes I didnt have wind against three of them were par 3's The 3rd the 6th and the 11th. On the 3rd my 90% 3 iron went 266 yards....

    Again I had massive headwind on 4, 15 and both par 5's. On the 4th my dinged drive only went 240 yards, followed by a dinged 3 wood that went 204 yards. Absolutely brutal.

    To go round in 62 with no bogeys in those conditions, I thought was good, good for me at least, considering I was consistently hitting long irons and 3 wood approach shots.

    So it kind of cements in my mind that the way the high wind RG's are set up is too heavily biased towards 'luck of the (wind) draw' than skill. Over 18 holes a good wind set gives too much of an advantage over a bad wind set, so I believe WGT need to do something to create a level of commonality of conditions, and then the person who plays best wins, and for me that will always be a fair result.

     

  • ForrestLeigh
    264 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 7:23 AM

    PRIESTESS:

    kam4122:
    However it did get me thinking... in high stakes RG's on a skill based gaming site, should the wind set in such a round be common for everyone? I reckon (others may disagree) that a dream wind set versus a brutal wind set on RSG is probably worth 5 or 6 shots stood on the first tee, maybe even more.

    This is why i wont enter high stakes high wind comps,Its not fair at all is it? I entered this yesterday without looking at the conditions,It wont happen again lol,.I had a 28 cross wind move half way across the Equator LOL

    Same reason I won't enter them anymore - I also hate the 'it evens itself out over time arguement'

    It does not! - statistically or actually - one lucky player may actually get consistent 'good winds' another may get consistent 'bad' winds

  • kam4122
    1,695 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 7:38 AM

    Penners:
    I agree 5 or 6 shots is about right - in a highly competitive game, that's a huge difference.

    On both the 1k RG at RSG and the 2k at Cabo 5 shots is the difference, on average, between winning top spot and not getting (all of) your stake back.

    Based on a wind set that is probably predefined somewhere deep inside the game server as you stand on the first tee, that is unacceptable.

  • Kriztjan
    1,437 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 8:24 AM

    i totaly agree, there has been suggestions about the winds divided into quadrants, and that the wind shoul differ withing that quadrant, in that case everybody will have "same same" wind but not exactly the same.

     

    In singelplay i see no argument that will hold up to not having simular winds, unlimited play, sure no problem.

     

    RSG and Cabo are two courses that with helping winds plays pretty easy, but with wrong winds as said previous, 5-6 shots differ.

  • ForrestLeigh
    264 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 8:27 AM

    I wonder what the outcry would be if random winds were included in alt shot, matchplay etc - you play your tee into a blazing 28mph headwind, on a long par 4 your opponents then play the same shot with a nice 25mph tailwind. Their second is an iron/wedge in for birdie putt, your second does not even make the green.

    The only difference as I see it is you don't actually play against your opponents in tourney or RG's you just post your score v's their score

    And thats how WGT get around this 'issue' because we play on our own

  • WGTicon
    12,511 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 12:04 PM

    Hi

    I know what ya mean, This is likely a bigger issue on rsg/sta with heavy winds. I suspect moderate offer less of an obstacle. I don;t think there is much that can be done, short of not having heavy winds there, but I'll ask around.

    -wgticon

  • gotstewart
    201 Posts
    Fri, Nov 4 2011 1:38 PM

    PRIESTESS:

    This is why i wont enter high stakes high wind comps,Its not fair at all is it? I entered this yesterday without looking at the conditions,It wont happen again lol,.I had a 28 cross wind move half way across the Equator LOL

    Tess, I agree with you.   There is absolutely no way that I throwing away $20 for a crapshoot of heavy winds.  Like the 18 holes better than 9 but until the heavy winds  disappear, I will not play the high stakes. I blew a ton of credits at congressional but those will stay in my pocket for a month lol

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