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High Wind / High Stakes RG's

• PRIESTESS 10,721 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 1:40 PM

  LOL Have you noticed how many ready goes are high winds? LOL,We have a full set of Coco cabana  and a mixture of high winds with the remainder  ,Way too funny,,Good luck on this months ready goes profits wgt  hha

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 4:18 PM

  kam4122:

  In these high stakes RG's are common conditions essential? Would the same small group of players win them all the time?

  At least every player would have an equal & more balanced crack at the whip.

  Especially on the links course (St Andies & RSG). Anyone who's played a links course in heavy winds will understand the huge benefits of having a tailwind knocking the ball a mile down the fairway. Sure hitting a bad bounce on the fairway might stick it in the rough....but a 50yrd wedge out of the rough to the green is a hell of a lot easier than getting a huge headwind and the drive hitting an upslope and stopping dead in it's tracks leaving the player with a 3wd to the green into a 30mph headwind/crosswind.

  I know which instance I'd prefer.

  TBE

   

• mantis0014 8,946 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 5:31 PM

  PRIESTESS:

  LOL Have you noticed how many ready goes are high winds? LOL,We have a full set of Coco cabana  and a mixture of high winds with the remainder  ,Way too funny,,Good luck on this months ready goes profits wgt  hha

  hmmm.. I agree.. Priestess. Not forgetting the Champ speed greens. Actually , the heavy winds and Champ speed greens at Cabo is not that bad...but the Champ speed at Kia is rather interesting...lol.

• Boomerboy44 1,514 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 7:33 PM

  If the game is governed by math formulas why can't they make the game fairer. Everybody gets the same wind with the variations only in the same quadrant. Is this an impossible task???

• jvr86 799 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 9:36 PM

  Lets create an example to see how unfair can be different wind direction in single play tournaments, specially the ones with more money involve. 

  Imagine there is "one hole" 2000cr tournament with high wind and legends only. The hole is St. ANdrews #14 (par 5) open for the first 3 player who sign in. winner gets all.

  Player A, B and C entered the tournament and each one had different wind direcction. The 3 players have similar skills and average aroun 60...

  So:

   

  • Player A had 30 Mph tail wind at 12:00

   

  he is good player and know the course so he made the green in 2 shots and eagle the hole.

  Score -2

   

   

  • Player B  had 24 Mph side wind at 3:00

   

  He is a good player too but he didn't had tail wind so he couldnt made the green in 2; but managed to made green in regulation for a birdie.

  Score -1

   

   

  • Player C had 30 Mph head wind at 6:00

   

  He is the best player of the 3. Ha barely made it to the fairway with the driver.

  On the Second shot, because of the wind, he is still on the same  piece of fairway of this par 5.

  The third shot he managed to get into the second fairway but not in the green yet. Finally he made his 4th shot (29yrd flop shot) and left the ball one feet from the hole for saving par.

  Score. E

   

  The three players made a perfect game.

  The three players ding all shots.

  The three players made one putt.

  The three players used the same best equipment.

  The three players had different scores, but not because one of them was better but because the wind was different.

  And the wind made player A to win; but not because he was better, but because the wind helped him to get on green in two.

   

  If we assume this is similar to real life, like WGT pretend this to be; Wind can´t change to opposite direction from one minute to another. What can happen is: wind strength to change and a little direction change. Player A can have 27mph at 12:00, Player B 30mph at 11:00 and player C 27mph at 1:00 and all of the will have the same possibilities to made the green in 2 with not the same wind but a real wind configuration. ... so MORE FAIR AND SAME CHANCES TO EVERYONE.

  Jvr

   

• PRIESTESS 10,721 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 9:53 PM

  Bottom line is this,30 tailwind and 30 wind against can be a difference of 70 yards on a drive:).Player A hits 190 30 wind against and uses a 3 iron with a turbo enhanced feature ,[Player B has 120 and hits a gentle 105 wedge:),What incentive does that give a player with more than 2 brain cells to enter?,The only way wgt will make changes is by players not entering them:),At least introduce something on a trial basis,

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 10:28 PM

  I played st andrews back 9 yesterday twice in high winds.

  On the 17th tee I got a 27 mph full in the face headwind and was lucky to get over the wall leaving me almost a full 3wd just to even think about reaching the green.

  The 2nd time I played it I got a 28 mph tailwind and drove 410 yrds.....leaving a 35yrd  flop for eagle opportunity.

  This kind of randomness happens in high wind RG's and that's why I won't play them any more. I tried many times in the past and got burned, and it put me off when I saw 27's - 28's winning it knowing that in no way had those people got the same headwinds as me.

  The St Andrews Speciality I call it. 6 full in the face 28mph headwinds.....a couple of G Force crosswinds and the customery 25mph tailwind on the 8th hole with the pin at the front lol...yadda yadda ya.

  I can think of more pleasurable ways of getting tortured for $20.

  tbe

   

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 11:10 PM

  In moderate winds in alt shot yesterday, I hit a 331 yard drive with an R11.  My opponent, a master, hit a 301 yard drive with an R9.  He ended up 28 yards in front of me.  This is similar to what happens with random winds on the same tier.  But here's another example for you.  Imagine a high stakes RG on the back 9 at SA, even in moderate wind, that is open to all tiers...  So picture the two shots I describe above, except instead of my 331 yard drive with tail, imagine I am hitting into a 21 yard headwind and another entrant, who is a TM is hitting with a 22 yard tailwind.  Now you are looking at nearly 100 yards of difference in drives.

  The people that say that having tailwinds isn't always an advantage are right, of course, but man, I'd rather be looking at 150 with a strong tail than 210 with 30 MPH in my face.

  And of course, even having identical winds for all golfers would be better than totally random.  The best would be 4 quadrants, NE to NW, NW to SW, SW to SE, SE to NE.  But, I have asked this before.  WGT says players would share information, and have a big advantage knowing what clubs to use, etc.  Not really... any of the clubs can basically hit any of the shots.  In almost any game, it comes down to making shots, whether you know the clubs ahead of time or not.  My question is this:  Which is more of an advantage:  A competitor knowing all the exact winds on every hole ahead of time, or having effectively a 400-500y shorter course over 9 holes?

  And you can count me among those that think it foolish to spend... well for some, high stakes... for me, ANY money on competitions where the main deciding factor may not be who shoots the best golf, but who wins WGT's roll of the dice.

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 11:16 PM

  thebigeasy707:

  This kind of randomness happens in high wind RG's and that's why I won't play them any more. I tried many times in the past and got burned, and it put me off when I saw 27's - 28's winning it knowing that in no way had those people got the same headwinds as me.

  This... I was seeing winning scores that I knew that, under the conditions I had, I could not have shot even with perfect golf.

  On 14 and 17 at SA, the wind can mean a 2 stroke difference with totally perfect golf shots (I'm not talking about making a 230 yard shot, I mean fairways, pins, and putts).

• kam4122 1,695 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 1:50 AM

  I think the common opinion, is that in High winds on RSG and SA over 18 holes a good wind set is worth 5 or 6 shots over a bad wind set, and over 9 holes its worth 2 or 3 shots.

  Moderate winds are not much better, a good set can give a 3 -4 shot advantage over a bad set over 18 and 1 or 2 shots over 9 holes.

  Other courses where wind is not as severe, it is less of a problem, but not  insignificant, Kiawah front 9 for example in high winds, get the wrong set and you are out of range of both par 5's in 2 shots and are probably hitting 3 wood on the 4th hole approach, this simply means one player can have 2 eagle opportunities and a birdie opportunity, where another is looking at 2 birdie opportunities and a tough par, so an immediate potential 3 shot advantage due to the wind.

  I think there is no advantage in knowing the winds in advance on a RG, what is someone going to do, burn 2k credits to see what wind there is? If it is a static wind set WGT could mitigate this by publishing the wind set for everyone to view in advance?