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Re: Balls rolling through pins and over holes

Tue, Aug 28 2012 6:28 AM (127 replies)
  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2011 6:50 PM

    ok.... if i have to

     

    the op questioned "balls rolling through pins"

    the video appears to show a large ball trail across the hole.

    ......................

     

     

    the point of the picture was to show the op that the ball went passed the pin.

     

    stopping the video near the hole and blowing up the picture shows ball passing one side of the hole.

    thus not "rolling through the pin"

     

    there should be no need for an explanation

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2011 9:50 PM

    oilyrag:
    ok.... if i have to
    Well you could always charge us peasants a fee prior to tapping into and sharing with us your superior wisdom.

    oilyrag:
    the op questioned "balls rolling through pins"
    ..and over holes.

    oilyrag:
    the video appears to show a large ball trail across the hole.
    Uh huh , yes , yes....let's move on. Getting good now. I'm buttering popcorn as we speak.

    oilyrag:
    the point of the picture was to show the op that the ball went passed the pin.
    Uh huh , yes , ok.

    oilyrag:
    stopping the video near the hole and blowing up the picture shows ball passing one side of the hole.
    Over the hole to the side of the pin , dipping  , hitting back of the cup, and continuing on IMO , but that's beside the point ...popcorns done , and we're getting close to the finale. 

    oilyrag:
    thus not "rolling through the pin"
    Uh huh , yes , yes , but seeing as how I did not ever mention the words "through the pin" , "the pin"  , "pin" , "sewing pin" , "safety pin" , "bobby pin"  "pen" , "feather pen" ,"fountain pen" , "ballpoint pen" , "fiber tip pen" , "Roller ball pen" , "Gel ink pen" , "bull pen" , Pig pen" , or "chicken pen" , might leave one to believe that I wasn't referring to a  ball rolling through a pin/pen of any type whatsoever , as the latter part of the OP's title reads..."and over holes."    ......And this popcorn is like.... Really good tonight.

    oilyrag:
    there should be no need for an explanation
    I agree totally , but....if I have to.  I was referring to the ball traveling over the hole with such forward momentum that  gravity lost the battle , much like a skateboarder who flies across a gap with such momentum that they actually  clear the gap  instead of be placed on the next episode of  "Scarred".    ....and this popcorn....WoW.

                                                                                                                                     Ace

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2011 9:55 PM

    dfDurbs:
    if there was a lamp pole sticking up and the skateboarder hit it, I suggest that his/her direction would experience some change in direction.
    LOL , yes ,  and  it's hilarious to watch too....lmao.   I watch scarred all the time...turn my head and close my eyes a lot ,  but it's quite a draw for some reason.

                                                                                                                               Ace

     

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2011 10:13 PM

    LMAO. Ace is in rare form tonight!   FWIW, there's also plenty of room for the ball to pass over the cup without hitting the pin.

  • Bidi
    1,948 Posts
    Mon, Oct 31 2011 4:58 AM

    r u kidding me? 1

    r u kidding me?2

    r u kidding me?3

    r u kidding me?4

    r u kidding me?5

    r u kidding me?6

    r u kidding me?7

    this are all shots in the last month....if u want to see more, just ask me!

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Oct 31 2011 7:06 AM

    Bidi:

    I found #2 most interesting.  Camera 1 from the player's view clearly shows the putt going wide of the cup.  Camera 2 from the reverse view clearly shows the putt rolling over the hole.

    I assume the ball track is constant in both views.  But the hole is in different positions.  It makes me wonder, when lining up a putt, what the hell hole do I aim at

    Bidi, do you aim from player view or reverse view?

     

  • Bidi
    1,948 Posts
    Mon, Oct 31 2011 7:24 AM

    andyson:
    Bidi, do you aim from player view or reverse view?

    i aim always from reverse view leaving the flag

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Oct 31 2011 11:20 AM

    Bidi:
    i aim always from reverse view leaving the flag

    Yes, so do I. 

    Here's what I learned from your Replay #2.

    If the cup were really, truly where it is shown on camera view 2, that putt would have fallen. 

    The cup is really, truly where it is shown on camera view 1, that putt never would have fallen barely catching the edge.

    Camera 1, the player view, more accurately shows the cup. The ball reacts like it caught the edge of a cup.

    Camera 2, the reverse view has the cup two inches left of where it really is.  I'll call this the "Phantom Pin".  It looks like the cup there when you aimed from the reverse view.  But it wasn't.

    Player View                                                   Reverse View

       

    I'm sure WGT got the GPS coordinates correct.  They know where the ball is, they know where the cup is.  Both camera views have the same data.

    I have to assume the calculations done to place the cup in the photo used in camera view 2 put the hole in the wrong spot.  (It makes sense to me they would not take photos of the greens with cups cut in them for all pin positions.  I've never seen a photo with an extra pin in it have you? LOL)

    Basically, sometimes we aim for a cup in the photo that is left or right of where it is.  I think we all compensate by thinking and remembering "That putt breaks more than than it looks." or "This putt breaks less than what the dots indicate."

    WGT would call it a "mapping issue".  i.e. what shows as fairway in the photo is called 30-40 rough in the game.  I think its a "calculation issue".  GPS says its in the rough.  The calculation for the ball placement in the photo shows the ball on the fairway.

    Fix the calculation WGT and a lot of these "ball rolls over the hole", "How can that not go in",  "ball hovering over the hole", etc. go away.

    IMO

     

  • 7thwave
    556 Posts
    Tue, Nov 1 2011 12:49 AM

    Nice analysis Bido. What i'm wondering: this discussion is how the put looks from a replay point of view. I'd say this problem is the same as a problem that occurs one step before this; the actual put. Or, to be exact: lining up the put. Very often one get's differences between the brakes looking from thew rear view or the front view. Very often one has to choose one of the options because the Wedging View give's no definite clue. Guessing wrong is putting wrong, with a ball rolling against the suspected brake.

    Weather it is GPS-data that is inconsistent, mapping-issues or whatnot i do not know.  It seems obvious there are multiple scenario's calculated (Front View Rear View...Diff. Camera positions) and that there is a discrepency between them.

    Frankly i'm surprised the Front/Rear-issue did not pop-up in the forum yet. Or did i miss that? Or maybe i'm just wrong and the only one seeing this. Just paranoid? Which doesn't mean everyone is NOT out to get me ;-)))

  • Bidi
    1,948 Posts
    Tue, Nov 1 2011 2:50 AM

    Great job Andyson!!

    PHANTOM FLAG is the right name!

    want to try also with this one?

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