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TL SATURATION IS MEANINGLESS, AND...

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Wed, Jul 9 2014 3:19 PM

  serves absolutely zero purpose. Here is why (my opinion):

  The saturation "point" was designed solely for every tier to eventually advance, and to stop/slow-down the sand-baggers. From Legend on back, it is a superb idea to have the highest rounds/scores come off after a certain point. If not, Pro's would stay Pro's winning RG's daily, and then shooting 150 a few times to up their score, so as to not hit the dreaded Tour Pro tier next, and so on and so on, all the way through Legend. There was one Legend, who tried his best to not move up to TL by carding 10-15 rounds of 150 a day at RSG (while having his "named after him sons" 22 accounts as his only friends---his sons are gone, yet he is still here and is a TL now, and doing quite well, too). And without the 500 round saturation, he would still be cleaning up free and paid tourneys while maintaining that 91.?? average as a Legend.

  So, every tier BELOW TL should have that saturation point, or be automatically tiered up because of winnings (just as it is now). However, once you reach TL, and there is no other tier, saturation is meaningless, and doesn't accurately reflect (after 500 rounds) the player's TRUE average.

  I know it's been "brought up" that there should be a at least one more higher tier (I believe it should be 2). I mentioned (jokingly) in the "Downtime" post last night that I was going to try and knock out the 300 remaining rounds, so I would be "saturated". then, I started thinking that my score would fall even if I shot 100 or more per round, and eventually I'd have a below 60 average, which in all honesty would be false. At least as of now, it would be. I'm not sure I'm writing exactly what I am trying to say.

  In short: Until and unless a new tier above TL comes out, there is no sense whatsoever in TL saturation. There is no valid argument against this statement, either. Other than WGT just wanting to help players boost their pride.

  And, no, i am NOT against any of the super-low average TLs. Many are my friends. And they are just that good with or without saturation (albeit their averages would be higher than shown, for sure. No matter how many rounds they have played. It would be impossible, even in virtual golf to average low 50's (unless you began on day one of being a TL, and withdrew/restarted every round until you posted a 26 or a 52).  Just something I've been pondering since my post last night, and then seeing I**ie in the spotlight again (I know he is no longer playing) with a 51 average. Just a little too unreal.

  This would be one of the simplest jobs for the programmers at WGT. Remove TL saturation (very, very simple) or add a couple of higher tiers (also, very simple...not to mention the new high dollar equipment that could then be sold - 100.00 putters, 250.00 drivers, etc :-) and maybe some 20.00 a sleeve srixons for Tour Champions only (like the Legend only Cally's).

  All the time I wasted typing this rambling post, I could've hit that saturation point if I had been playing (posting my 31's).

   

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Wed, Jul 9 2014 3:34 PM

  jayw4862:

  All the time I wasted typing this rambling post, I could've hit that saturation point

   

  LMAO!

   

  Good read tho Bro!

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 2:06 AM

  In many ways speaking to the choir here feller.

  Think I saw some one else recommend a minimum number of RRs (per tier??) before people could enter credit based comp.  WGT would not have to go mad to at least get some integrity going, but $ v integrity and the $ winds.  More than one , albeit, financial institution has ended up regretting that path but way it is here presently.

  One look at TL averages and it's mostly as farcical as are some of the below TL leader boards.  My ideas are all over the new tier thread, and will not pester by repeating them here.  

  I will say rolling average will be the way to go and include some reward for genuine, one account players by getting the pro shop open entirely..(need to read thread as not something for nothing).  

  If WGT do use a saturated average calc, and not a rolling one based on several courses for the new tier well hmmmmmmmm.  The mod that gets to sell that nonsense will have drawn the very short straw.

  I never touched on two new tiers but read the suggestion with interest.

   EDIT: The rolling average would ideally be say shown in say green for learner (any identifier would be fine), and so any new say hamp average list would show a rolling one, and go black when enough 7 plays at most courses have been achieved.  Not complicated when think about (and read other thread - added as know WGT read this stuff).  Better players will still float etc etc...And BTW reset all stats to zero for teh start of the new tier. Thus, when Columbus Storm or anyone else (WGT for example) publishes a Champ list by average it really means something.

  And while I am at it show some ones win v loss ratio for MP CHALLENGE for matches up to say 100 credits and over 100 credits (minimum) on their page and also game client to help clean that up too.  A little bit of integrity may not hurt here and there forced or not, and may even benefit all. Basically get some common sense going, and stop wasting time with stuff like clapping.

   

   

   

   

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 2:22 AM

  Jimbog1964:

  I will say rolling average will be the way to go and include some reward for genuine, one account players by getting the pro shop open entirely

  Agree.

• alosso 21,069 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 4:33 AM

  Jimbog1964:

  I will say rolling average will be the way to go

  I fail to see the positives of rolling average in the top tier?

  It doesn't change the players' skills, it doesn't change competition. And, after 500 rounds, it represents a broad basis for skill display. Ev1 knows that a lot of diligence stands behind a 52.x average.

  I'm curious, what is it that speaks against saturation except that it's "zero purpose" NOW?
  What would be better without it? (edited)

  OTOH, rolling calculation would separate the common formulas from the other tiers,
  - calling for extra programming and programming errors,
  - making another change necessary if your coveted new tier should be introduced.

  Two reasons for WGT, one for us NOT to wish for it, IMHO.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 4:52 AM

  alosso:

  OTOH, rolling calculation would separate the common formulas from the other tiers,
  - calling for extra programming and programming errors,

  WGT are looking at the new tier.  If it's going to happen I would like to see it mean something.

  alosso:

  Ev1 knows that a lot of diligence stands behind a 52.x average.

  One look at the top of the TL average page and it does not have to mean anything. A bit of silliness is not a reason to introduce programming errors granted, but I will leave that decision for WGT. It would be nice for true top players like Sebicu to get that recognition. Better players would still float generally, and remember my method is not completely rolling.  The best 7 scores from each course would count thus not penalising bad rounds too much against the CC V Fast greens low wind only merchant, but at least BPBF9 would only count for 7 rounds etc as said.  Nothing perfect, but better than what we have.  The rest of the Stats should be reset and IMO include all rounds in the new tier, and get UELs / Bof P3/5 separate.

  I can only offer what I think would be better for the player.  I leave it to WGT to decide what is within their power to do sensibly with their resources.  When I saw the clapping I did wonder if they were that time challenged at all.  Communication from them should be good on this as well, but.............

   

   

• alosso 21,069 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 5:02 AM

  Jimbog1964:

  Better players would still float generally, and remember my method is not completely rolling.  The best 7 scores from each course would count thus not penalising bad rounds too much against the CC V Fast greens low wind only merchant, but at least BPBF9 would only count for 7 rounds etc as said.

  OIC - I had not yet noticed this 7-rounds-detail of your proposal. It appeards to me like a measure against baggers of both kinds, perhaps an effort to true & fair representation of skills(?)

  I honestly doubt that such moral items are on their roadmap...

  Happy dreams my friend! :o) :o) :o) :o) :o)

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 6:04 AM

  alosso:

  perhaps an effort to true & fair representation of skills(?)

  Yes.

  alosso:

  I honestly doubt that such moral items are on their roadmap...

  AlI did was remind WGT that even great big corporations have come a major cropper for ongoing bad practices (one look at some leaderboards for starters).  I also stated that IMO creating another tier that relies on saturation methods is a futile waste of time that only a child would care about,  However they did introduce clapping noises.  

  Up to them, but my opinion stated.

   

• alosso 21,069 Posts

  Thu, Jul 10 2014 6:33 AM

  I agree concerning the bad practices but I see them mainly below Master tier, before competition is too largely leveled by the tracks' length.

  Enjoy your day!