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#17 Kiawah

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Thu, Jan 5 2012 5:23 AM (19 replies)
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  • macbar
    79 Posts
    Sun, Dec 5 2010 11:55 AM

    You really need to fix the drop problem on #17 at Kiawah. If a player hits the ball in to the water (at least when legends do) you have to hit your second shot from the sand. This is not complicit with USGA rules. I should have the option of dropping the ball on a line where it crossed the hazard no nearer the hole, even if that means rehitting from the tee. It's ridiculous to have to hit a dropped recovery shot from the sand. I was -6 on this hole today and hit into the water... wound up taking a triple on the hole. Needless to say, I wasn't a very happy camper after I saw the drop conditions. Please fix this issue.

  • TOMCATWOODS
    11 Posts
    Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:35 PM

    dont hit it in the water

  • Jobeak
    105 Posts
    Sun, Dec 5 2010 5:00 PM

    Same thing happened to me. Had to take my drop shot from the sand on the other side of the lake to the right of the green. Thought it a bit odd at the time.

  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Tue, Dec 27 2011 6:54 PM

    macbar:
    You really need to fix the drop problem on #17 at Kiawah. If a player hits the ball in to the water (at least when legends do) you have to hit your second shot from the sand. This is not complicit with USGA rules. I should have the option of dropping the ball on a line where it crossed the hazard no nearer the hole, even if that means rehitting from the tee. It's ridiculous to have to hit a dropped recovery shot from the sand. I was -6 on this hole today and hit into the water... wound up taking a triple on the hole. Needless to say, I wasn't a very happy camper after I saw the drop conditions. Please fix this issue.

    This was originally reported well before this post and guess what.....it still isn't fixed.  BTW,  it's against the rules of golf to drop from one hazard into another. You could theoretically drop the ball in the same hazard you were in if you played the ball from the hazard and lost the ball on that shot but you can't go from one hazard to another.  The rules of the game can be confusing but I took this question to a friend who has served as the rules chairman at August and he confirmed that what we see on 17 is completely against the rules.

    So after meter bites you and you go swimming on 17, if you dropped that ball into the sand hazard on 17 (which is far more clearly marked as a bunker than the one at Whistling Straits which cost Dustin Johnson the major) then hit it you would automatically incur a 2 stroke penalty.

    How long do you guys need to fix this elementary faux pas WGT?

     

  • piztaker
    5,743 Posts
    Tue, Dec 27 2011 9:43 PM

    I've heard of this problem before but it has never happened to me. Strange.

  • MainzMan
    9,591 Posts
    Tue, Dec 27 2011 10:52 PM

    It would be nice to be given the option to re-hit from the original location.  I can't imagine this would be hard to implement, it's taking the same shot again while adding 1 to your score, surely that can't be difficult.

    If it makes you feel any better a guy in our CC hit the water at Congressional #18 a while ago and the game decided the drop zone was in the water.  It then proceeded to keep re-dropping until it ate all his Callaways. As far as I know he had to close the game window and abandon the game, I guess it would keep dropping free balls forever.

    He did get the Callaways back from WGT but it's a pretty crap thing to happen.   There's a screenshot in out forum, it even shows the lie as water.

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Tue, Dec 27 2011 11:26 PM

    jakestanfill7:
    (which is far more clearly marked as a bunker than the one at Whistling Straits which cost Dustin Johnson the major)
    Letters were given to all participants stating "any and all" sand would fall under bunker rules. Dustin was a class act gentleman about it. I don't know about costing him a major , but it did cost him the playoff...would have been a 3 way. He said the gallery had trampled that spot terribly and he never dreamed it would have been considered a trap. Grounded his club not once , but twice. But you are right..."if he gets up and down"  for par ,  it was his indeed.

                                                                                                                           Ace

     

    Here's a few opinions on the matter.

     

    John Garrity, contributing writer, Sports Illustrated: I agree that those bunkers SHOULDN'T be considered bunkers — not after families have sat in them and children have built sand castles in them — but the players were told at the beginning of the week that they were legitimate bunkers and they couldn't ground a club in them. Horrible break for Johnson, but he simply screwed up.

    Van Sickle: John is right. Every player knew those bunkers would be an issue before the week began. It was imperative to check on that rule and be prepared. Dustin Johnson should've known that rule.

    Jim Herre, managing editor, SI Golf Group: I agree with Gary that some of those bunkers should have been waste areas. Definitely a flaw in Pete Dye's Whistling Straits design. Who needs all those dinky bunkers? Declaring that they were all bunkers and not waste areas was a cop-out by the PGA.

    Cameron Morfit, senior writer, Golf Magazine: I wondered about those bunkers all week. They look like divots taken by giants. Ridiculous. Why?

    Garrity: It seems like a cop-out, but I don't know where they could have drawn the line. Many of those bunkers have gallery ropes running right down the middle of them. One side was raked, the other side looked like the beach at Coney Island on the Fourth of July.

     

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 12:08 AM

    Nice little read about it.

     

    As Dustin Johnson pulled out his 4-iron and gently placed it in the sand beneath his feet on the 18th hole at Whistling Straits this evening, Mike Davis sat in front of his television in his New Jersey home and knew exactly what would happen next.

    Johnson had stepped into a bunker — and had committed an irreversible error with a one-shot lead in the final round of the PGA Championship.

    “I immediately said to my wife, ‘Oh my God, Dustin just grounded his club in a hazard,’ ” said Davis, the USGA’s Senior Director of Rules and Competitions tonight by phone. “He grounded his club and it was clear to me on TV that he had done it and I was thinking to myself, ‘My God, the whole world saw this and no one is saying anything.’ ”

    It turned out that there were eyes on Johnson as he set up for his second shot in the bunker well off to the right side of the fairway. After he finished his final round with a bogey that appeared to put him in a playoff with Bubba Watson and eventual champion, Martin Kaymer, Johnson was notified that he had grounded his club. He would be assessed a two-stroke penalty and sign for a 73, instead of a 71.

    But as he spent 10 excruciating minutes watching the tape in the scoring tent everyone was asking the same question.

    Was it a bunker or not?

    “Walking up there and seeing the shot, it never once crossed my mind that it was a sand trap,” Johnson told CBS TV after it was all over. “I guess it’s very unfortunate. … I never once thought that I was in a sand trap.”

    The reason was because as Johnson walked up to his ball, hundreds of spectators were packed in around him and all over the wall of what was deemed to be the bunker in play. Replays on television showed that the ground and grasses had been trampled and broken down because of spectator traffic all week long. But according to the “Supplementary Rules of Play” that were distributed to every player upon arrival and posted in the locker room, all bunkers on the course were in play for the week.

    “All of the areas of the course that were designed and built as bunkers would be played as bunkers — whether or not they were inside or outside the ropes,” Mark Wilson, chairman of the PGA’s Rules Committee told CBS this evening. “And the first item of the rules sheet went on to say that this may mean in the conduct of the championship, that some areas outside of the ropes might have many footprints, heel prints or tire tracks. And nevertheless, those were irregularities of surface from which no relief would be permitted.”

     

    Happens to the best of them. Michelle Wie , 2008 at Panther Creek was in 2'nd place after 3 rounds. She failed to sign her scorecard "before" leaving the scoring area. DQ'd from the tournament.  2'nd place was $ 155,000.00 ,  the winner pocketing             $ 225,000.00  2 costly mistakes by 2 very good players.

                                                                                                                           Ace

     

  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 4:55 AM

    jakestanfill7:

     

    This was originally........................

     

     

    ok then, point out exactly  where you were "dropped", then i'll give you an explanation.

     

     

     

     

     

  • SgtDoodles
    3,112 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 6:06 AM

    The blue circle is where you teed off, the red circle is where you find the water, the yellow circle is where you were dropped. The drop must be in line with where you teed off, and where you found the water. Therefore, it chooses the best drop (i.e. not in the bushes) and drops you there.

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