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Re: DISTANCE BUG.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Oct 28 2015 11:20 AM

  phiber:

  So WGT does know of it and they know, obviously that it is a "trend" that does/causes it.  Seems to me it is as much WGT "doing their thing" as it is players setting up a shot incorrectly (like too much BS )

  We all know green speeds change subtly during the week. Maybe the same thing happens with the shot parameters. 

• PhiEaglesFan 617 Posts

  Wed, Oct 28 2015 10:32 PM

  Multiple People:

  Sometimes, you will see a trend when your clubs go shorter or longer

  This is exactly what I mean about misperception.  People have taken this as acknowledgement of a "bug".  It is nothing of the sort.  However, it is an acknowledgement of their own game principles.  They built the game to do this.  Purposefully.  Why?  Start another thread for that.  I'll be glad to chime in.

  If you're not familiar with the "precision circle", go search for it on this forum.  Come back once you're familiar.

  All WGT has said to you is this:
  Yes, you can hit 3 dings in a row and they will land in that circle of precision.  Somewhere.  That does not discount or eliminate the possibility that all 3 of those shots in a row could go right of center.

  Let me illustrate with another example.  You flip a coin 10 times.  The first flip is tails, the 2nd flip is heads.  The next 4 flips are tails.  The next 3 flips are heads.  The last flip is tails. 

  So, what did we just observe with the coin?

  Sometimes, you will see a trend when your [coin goes] heads or tails. But for the most part, [you shouldn't see too many consecutive heads or tails.]
  

  There isn't a bug in the laws of physics simply because heads showed up three times in a row.  That was just a temporary trend that ultimately corrects itself over a much  larger sample (much larger than your individual round).

  I believe the impression people have is that only your round and your shots determine when your next deviation occurs.  This is not the case.  It's everyone's rounds, and everyone's shots, including your own personal shot history that determine your next deviation.

  In other words, everyone's reaching in and pulling out a "shot result" from the community hat.  The shot results in the hat will be distributed randomly.  That means that one golfer could end up consistently "getting unlucky" and drawing the bad deviation each time they go to the hat.  Another golfer could get "lucky" and draw moderate or no deviations each time they draw from the hat.

  We're ALL drawing from the SAME hat.  One shot at a time.

  Once you have your hat draw, WGT then applies one last variable.  User input.   Your "hat draw" shot is now modified by your relevant equipment and your ding-a-ability.  There is protection built into this game that says, hey, if you ding every single time, you're obviously pretty good.  Guess who's gonna get more bad draws than the other guys until we knock you down a peg?

  This is why 100% ding cheaters can't ever win consistently here.  The game will start its anti-ding routine and start slappin' those "dings" around.  Built-in cheater protection.  Now, connect all those dots and think really hard about it.  It'll take your game to the next level.  No, I'm not going to tell you, but you have all the information here to figure it out.

  That explains away yet another common complaint,  "How is it I was playing well last round and now I can't hit anything right?" It's the same reason a craps table gets hot for 20 minutes then suddenly goes ice cold for an hour. Also you said it yourself, you were playing well.  The game knows this, so your circle gets a touch bigger.  Ding again, circle gets bigger.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

  Chaos reigns in the casino.   On WGT, chaos is reigned in by your clubs and balls, but never completely due to your shot history.

  I can't possibly explain this any better than that.

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Wed, Oct 28 2015 11:22 PM

  I think that's a pretty good explanation of the randomness built into the game, but the coin flip analogy doesn't quite fit, and there's a good reason that it doesn't.

  You could flip the coin 99 times and get tails every time, but on the 100th flip the odds are still 50/50.  Each toss is an individual event and isn't affected by previous results.  Thinking otherwise is called the Gambler's Fallacy, and is exactly what the casinos you mentioned count on.  They love it when the gambler believes "this cold streak will soon end" or "gotta ride this hot streak."

  Otherwise I think you're right on the money, if you'll excuse the pun.

• Wontonamo 2,269 Posts

  Wed, Oct 28 2015 11:26 PM

  ive always thought this game was more about luck than skill lol no matter how wgt advertises itself.

  it would be nice if it was purely a skill based game but yea that's just wishful thinking.

  ps big fan of archer (best cartoon of all time) and currently watching moonbeam city which is pretty cool too

• PhiEaglesFan 617 Posts

  Thu, Oct 29 2015 12:36 AM

  andyson:

  Pretty strong words. Can you back them up?

  I don't have to. This isn't about proving anything to anyone. This isn't a court of law, you're not on trial, and I don't care what anyone else thinks about what I say to you. You challenged my integrity, and were burned by your lack thereof. That's all people need to see.

  So, if the person from whom you stole wishes to confront you here, in a public forum, then that is their prerogative to do so. I have no right to make that decision for them. However, from what I understand, the person confronted you immediately when they found out (through a mutual friend) that you were doing this behind his/her back. I believe the phrase, "went ballistic on him" was used to describe their anger towards you. Honestly, I doubt they'll come back to rehash that just for everyone else's sake.

  You see, I have no personal stake in this. I have no interest in taking down the "defender of the good citizens of WGT". All that matters to me is that I now know what you're all about. The person from whom you took the code already knows what you're about. You already know what you're about, but sadly seem to willfully ignore it. And honestly, only 2 of those 3 people even matter in the end, and I'm not one of those two.

  It is quite amazing though. Considering that this whole series of events, this whole website code stealing forgot the metadata nonsense, is what immediately precipitated the shutdown and closure of an entire 75-member country club. What country club was that, you ask? Yours, Andy. Your former country club. It was closed because of you.

  It seems like a person couldn't possibly forget all of that in 3 years. I could see why someone would want to though. Stealing code and getting caught is embarrassing enough, but the WAY you got caught was extra embarrassing. HTML metadata is basically Internets 101, and you didn't even change the AUTHOR line. Damn.

  I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this, in fact you'll probably try to come up with some "clever" questions that can only be answered in your favor.  As I have previously conceded, you are quite the wordsmith.  However, what I do wish is for you to just move on, because your need for the "last word" keeps getting you into trouble, as I was advised it would.

  ----

  Lastly, remember that time, andy, when we were arguing about 7-Irons?  Good times. Remember when you railed me for 2-3 pages about an inconsequential detail not relevant to the overall point? Would it interest you to know that your stupid "gotcha" was wrong, that you were wrong, and that you then proceeded to carry on wrong for the entire rest of the conversation?

  PhiEaglesFan:

  ...years ago (back when we only had 2 club sets and one course to play)

  andyson:

  According to WGTIcon, HERE, they were broken.

  WGTicon:

  Hi ... In past, there were some clubs that were fixed, such as on old raptures and g10's (7iron)...-wgticon

  Andy, back when we had 2 clubs and one course. What club sets do you think those were? Wait, I think Jim already knows this...

  YankeeJim:

  The G10s aren't what he's talking about. Raptures and G10s came after BPB.

  Correct. I was not talking about G10's or Raptures.  I was talking about Starters(mostly) and Tour Starters. AKA, the only two club sets that existed when we had one stroke play course. Kiawah.

  So, Andy, you railed me for two pages about the wrong 7-iron for basically no reason, just so you could try to "get me" on details irrelevant to the point.  All because you couldn't be bothered to read my post or Jim's response. Good show, mate. Good show.

• PhiEaglesFan 617 Posts

  Thu, Oct 29 2015 12:45 AM

  mkg335:

  the Gambler's Fallacy

  Oooh, excellent point.   I edited my original text to include an explanation on that extra adjustment.

  I guess a better way to say it would be that we all draw from the same hat, and you will get a "shot result" each draw.  However, that shot result will be adjusted one step further by your previous shot history ( this is the "user input" part).

  I think bridges that gap a little.  I admit the analogy is crude, but I think it gets the point across.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Oct 29 2015 1:41 AM

  I think what Phil pointed out in this thread as regards game play (the only part I am addressing) is always welcome in such a thread, and so was the post from another about specific holes. I agree with some others have said as well, but using those first two mentioned as a terms of reference:

  I think sometimes the B9 feels harder than the F9 if the F9 was good.  Now how much of that is genuine and how much of that is the hidden gambler, looking for patterns which are not really there, I have no clue, not over enough of a spread anyway.  

  To one v initial specific issue as to are distances off often, and have others seen  it? I can only say that I have not.  

  Not saying WGT are anything other than as fallible as any place where humans operate, but on this one it's what I see.

  EDIT: RL dictated I have hardly swung a ball for two weeks, and so can only really talk up to that point.

• PhiEaglesFan 617 Posts

  Thu, Oct 29 2015 2:13 AM

  triple000:

  PhiEaglesFan:

  ... all my words ...

  Great " Essay "  Phil......Wish I had read something as insightful as this about two years ago.

  It's off  the practice range 4 me.

  Trip.

  Hey, thanks Trip.  Hope it helps. 

  It's ok, when you quote an entire post, if you want to replace the post itself with something like "Phi said stuff".  Save a virtual tree. =)

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Thu, Oct 29 2015 2:28 AM

  PhiEaglesFan:

  As far as the essay writing, well that's mighty clever.  I'd rather say a lot in a few posts than say nothing in 1,000.

  LOL, I call BS on this comment! LOL

  Anybody who doesn't get why the same shot is never or seldom the same only needs to download a "Memory Reader" and look at the code....even if you have no idea what you looking at all you need to do is look  and you will notice there is a lot of "dynamic code" written, dynamic code constantly changes whereas "static code" stays the same....

  The code for any variable such as wind changes until you click to shoot, it's like several results flashing on/off at 100mph and trying to hit the button so it  stops on "perfect"....then add "did you calculate the distance correctly", some holes don't play to the yardage given....of course you have some weird shots...
  

  It's basically that simple....