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DISTANCE BUG.

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Thu, Oct 29 2015 10:21 AM (69 replies)
  • triple000
    220 Posts
    Tue, Oct 27 2015 3:26 AM

    I just can't help myself when it comes to Blonde Jokes.............sorry !!

     

  • triple000
    220 Posts
    Tue, Oct 27 2015 3:38 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:

    You left out some details, so I'm going to assume you hit this shot with full spin.  Even if you didn't my point still holds.

    195yd shot with full spin isn't going to go 195 yards, pretty much ever.  Club yardages are averages, but ball trajectory and spin rate will affect those averages quite a bit.   You hit 190, so you took a little off, meaning the trajectory is not quite as high as it would be, meaning the carry isn't quite what it would be.  Then you hit the ground at 180 into an uphill and voila, 180 yard 5-iron.

    With my setup, when I hit a full-spin 195yd 5-iron I'm expecting it to go 187-188 yards (in no wind), with the understanding that a poorly timed deviation could leave me at 183-184 or 191-192.  This is why you pay for precision and forgiveness; these attempt to minimize what a deviation can do to you.

    The problem with many players is they refuse to accept these parameters for what they are. They continually beat their head against the wall, expecting 195 to always go 195 regardless of course conditions.  Players blame the programmers because that's easier than accepting that they may not be taking everything under consideration.  Players should be making notes of these key differences and adjusting appropriately.  When you take this all into account, and play the game how it wants to be played, you find that it is actually quite consistent.  Then the only true variable is deviation.

    People don't think about the fact that a 5-mph tailwind still means you're hitting INTO the wind.  The ball travels faster than 5mph.  You're not going to get quite the same lift when you hit downwind, because the wind isn't pushing up on the ball up as much as it normally would.  Lower trajectory = less carry.  Then what if you mishit the ball?  That throws another variable into the calculations.  You generally lose yardage when you mishit (though not always).

    I would've hit your shot with full backspin 195, expecting 187 + 2 feet down.  Sounds about right, maybe a touch short.  Hard to say for sure without knowing the hole/pin at which you were shooting and topography around the pin.

    That's why you don't see the top players complaining about this.  They've learned to accept what the game is giving them (instead of complaining about what it is not) and do their best to work around it.   They accept the environmental constraints for what they are and they make the necessary adjustments. 

    If suddenly my 5-iron goes 250 yards (as an intended change), then I'm not going to complain about it.  I'm gonna go figure out what happens if I take off 5%, 10% ( I try never to do more than 10%).  What happens if I hit no spin, half spin, 3 clicks off full spin, half top spin?  Spin can be used to fine-tune club yardages.  Each click means something (click = the absolute minimum distance you can move the dot).

    Now how much do those all different shots and spin settings affect the ball's trajectory, carry distance and what does that do to the roll when it lands?  Where is the ball likely to land based on that?  How will the wind affect it? 250 yard 5-irons aren't the norm of course, but if that's the environment I'm given to play within then I will adjust.  I'm willing to accept that it is what it is.

    I remember many years ago (back when we only had 2 club sets and one course to play) when people would complain that the 7-iron was broken.  150yd full spin 7-iron goes 138-ish.  It was never broken. It was just trajectory and spin (and poor clubs).  It looks like nowadays the "broken" club in my set is the 6-iron, because it typically only goes 171-172 (rated at 180) with full spin.  It's not broken, that just happens to be the edge of where spin starts winning the battle against forward motion.  That's crude, but apt.

    You basically have two options here; complain or adjust.  Those willing to make the adjustments will ultimately find some degree of success here.

    Get out there in practice mode, chart your shots with different spins (BP #10, KIA #1 both very flat) or at least take notice of what happens when you don't hit a full shot, don't use spin, or some combination of adjustments therein.  I recommend never taking off more than 10% on "full" type shots (meaning not punch, pitch, chip etc).   The meter is not linear, so taking off more than 10% can start to make for a difficult shot as the margin for error increases.  If you find yourself taking off more than 10%, trying making minute spin adjustments or use a different club altogether.

    There's also the fact that some pins (not holes/greens) simply play short or long.  Another representation of real golf.  "Yeah it says 207 on the sign, but it plays 215 at least."  You hear this on the course all the time.  CCC #12 plays long to the right pin.  BP #16 plays long to the left pin, but spot on or maybe a tad short for the right pin.

    I promise you will hit better shots and get better results if you are willing to take everything into account.  Just keep in mind, sometimes you're going to do everything right and still get a random deviation.  Sometimes you do things wrong and the deviation somehow puts you back online. That happens to all of us.  As I said earlier, deviation is the only true variable and that's just the nature of this game.

    Good luck.

    Great " Essay "  Phil......Wish I had read something as insightful as this about two years ago.

    It's off  the practice range 4 me.

     

    Trip.

  • Kelsey12
    2,114 Posts
    Tue, Oct 27 2015 12:19 PM

    PhiEaglesFan:

    @Kelsey12: Maybe try coming back, put some of this into practice and see if things change for you.  If not, nothing lost, but if it does help, then you're back to playing and enjoying the game again.  Send me a friend request, let's play.  You've got nothing to lose.  Give it a shot. =)

    Thank you, but it isn't simply a matter of making the game work for me, nor was it this one glitch that made me quit playing. This was only the proverbial straw.

    I could also accept Jim's VEM explanation had it been happening all along, but this is a recent issue within the past couple months.

    I haven't completely left the game. I enjoyed the company so much more than the actual game, and I've made friends here that I couldn't bear to give up. I may play again at some point, but we're 6 pages into this thread, and as I pointed out previously, our complaints go unanswered by WGT... not even an acknowledgement.

    Sorry your original reply was met with less than friendly responses. It is actually very informative, however irrelevant to the issue as it may be. A couple people have said it already, but you should know it didn't go unappreciated.

    Best of luck - Kelsey  =)

  • Essisdaddy
    5,883 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 8:23 AM

    Sometimes, you will see a trend when your clubs go shorter or longer

    WGT's own words - 13th October - in response to a somewhat terse, yet polite email I sent them after yet another 190yd, 4-6mph tailwind, dinged iron dropped dead at 174yds.

    So it is happening, they said so themselves.

    But expecting them to do anything about it...

     

  • Sarah91
    3,227 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 9:09 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:
    195yd shot with full spin isn't going to go 195 yards, pretty much ever.  Club yardages are averages, but ball trajectory and spin rate will affect those averages quite a bit.   You hit 190, so you took a little off, meaning the trajectory is not quite as high as it would be, meaning the carry isn't quite what it would be.  Then you hit the ground at 180 into an uphill and voila, 180 yard 5-iron.

    Yes Phil i do understand basic Physics even though i am Blond.

    PhiEaglesFan:
    You basically have two options here; complain or adjust.  Those willing to make the adjustments will ultimately find some degree of success here.

    AND point out to WGT that their may be a glitch or bug causing this, seeing as this is the Bug Log.

     

    As Courtney said i've played enough games to knows how to hit a ball. Now i dont think in any way i am a great player. I'd love to be better, thats the point of trying to improve your game through practice, upgrading clubs/balls and dedication.

    But the whole point of this post was to express my feelings that a bug is in the system. You play 4-5 rounds all ok. Distances as they should be, wind doing what it should. Then you play a round that just doesnt make sense. too many iron shots will fall way shorter than they should. it may only last 2-3 holes but by then the round is ruined and your left frustrated.

    Phil i admire your obvious skill after 7 years of playing but you cant tell me that every short shot by a player who has played a mere 4 years is their fault. if i hit it slightly off the Ding or use too much spin on a shorter club and it comes short, then yes i realize its me but always ??  No no.

    Lastly the reason for posting things in this Bug Log is hopefully for WGT to find out things they need to fix, if their there. And if debate brings advice from people like Phil, all the better.

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 9:35 AM

    Sarah91:
    You play 4-5 rounds all ok. Distances as they should be, wind doing what it should. Then you play a round that just doesnt make sense. too many iron shots will fall way shorter than they should. it may only last 2-3 holes but by then the round is ruined and your left frustrated.

    The blonde card is lame, your intelligence wasn't insulted. An experienced point of view weighed in on your post and then the mis-understandings sent the thread sideways.

    I quoted the above simply because I have seen the exact same thing happen to me a number of times in my 6+ years of studying and playing this game. I speak strictly from personal experience in all phases of this game and I totally believe what you pointed out is exactly how VEM works. At least that's MY perception and governs how I react to what happens when I play. 

    You ARE  responsible for every shot you take-nothing happens until you click the mouse. Then it's math that takes over and it's out of your hands. How those numbers are manipulated within the game is where the mystery is but 99% of the shot results can be explained in some fashion. There are many other threads discussing this over the years.

    The bottom line is one can't predict the outcome of a given shot, just as it is in real life. Successful golfers deal with it on a daily basis and so do we. That's what makes this frustrating game so damned addictive. To me, anyway.  ;-)

  • fatdan
    3,379 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 10:02 AM

    All I can say is I could list at least 20 pin placements on holes that play long or short of the given distance....Kiwiah #2 back right pin comes to mind immediately....nothing new, it has always been that way! After landing way short on that hole for the 20th time, the thought occurred to me that I might want to try a club more, problem solved! All of these holes obviously need to be played accordingly....

    The  thing I see consistently is most of my WTF shots come when I am using full b/s on short irons, and especially off the tee! Move the dot up to 95% b/s, problem solved

    With so many balls and so many new irons, I am actually amazed at how well the new courses play....most of the yardage glitches are on the older courses...

    As far as wtf shots that come up way short/long for no apparent reason on most of the holes, I don't see them very often, certainly not enough to make me quit playing....

  • Sarah91
    3,227 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 10:22 AM

    YankeeJim:
    The blonde card is lame

    This was in reference to the two 'blonde jokes' that appeared. A sarcastic referral. Blonde is not a defense i use.

     

     

  • TreeTopFlyer57
    79 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 10:33 AM

    I myself have seen quite a few holes where I am absolutely certain that the distance are corrupt ! You are right. I actually add 3 - 5 yds . Theres one hole on BBP`s front nine that I always set my shot up by A.) Distance and elevation. B.) Wind speed and direction, and C.) Add 3 - 5 yds for WGT  corruptness. Now hit it,... YES !!! Pin High !!! Although on almost any other hole it would be 3 - 5 yds long.You learn after you`ve taken that shot a few dozen times and figure out this whole gaming engine is fudged in every aspect I can think of except for the pretty graphics. Gotta give it to the WGT for thier top shelf graphics. However when I play the game, I almost WISH they would lay the "feared" V.E.M. whammy on me, at least "THAT" would explain some of the B.S. I see here compared to any other golf sim I`ve ever played. And THAT,,, from someone who`s been playing golf sims since 1996. Yup, pretty graphics but a true golf sim? Hardly.....(just about done) .........

  • phiber
    2,795 Posts
    Wed, Oct 28 2015 11:15 AM

    I have experience the exact same thing as many of you and especially the OP stated.  When I asked WGT about that, this was their response.

    Support (WGT)

    Aug 31, 5:27 PM

    Thank you for contacting WGT Member Services,

    If you take a look at our Clubs distances, they are not preset distances but we list them in average distances. Sometimes, you will see a trend when your clubs go shorter or longer but, for the most part, they should most often be within a couple of feet of the distances you see

    Thank you for playing World Golf Tour.

    So WGT does know of it and they know, obviously that it is a "trend" that does/causes it.  Seems to me it is as much WGT "doing their thing" as it is players setting up a shot incorrectly (like too much BS )

     

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