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Re: Inaccuracies

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Fri, Jul 15 2011 9:53 PM (16 replies)
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  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 6:06 PM

    WGTicon:
    if you hit 10 identical shots from 200 yards in identical wind with the most precise iron in the game, you still are likely to have 10ft circle, which means 1 shot can be 10ft left and other 10ft right,

    By that logic you're looking at a 20 foot circle.  10 ft radius = 20 ft diameter.  Add some high winds and you're looking at more like a 50 - 60 ft circle.

    Today I played (started and restarted) the Open qualifier many times.  3 times I had an 8mph wind directly at 9 oclock on #3 at RSG.  239 yd shot or something like that.  Dinged all 3 shots with that same wind.  Each time I aimed at the right edge of the green.  First shot nearly went in the hole.  Second shot actually went right against that wind and ended up in the right rough.  Third shot took off like a banana and came to rest left of the big hill on the left side of the green.  I don't know the dimensions of that green but in my estimation I don't think you could get all those shots in a 60 foot circle.

    Bottom line is deviations are maddening, especially when you have to fight a dogsh!t meter.  Finally ding a shot and it doesn't end up in the same area code that it should.

    My idea is to tighten up the circle greatly from the tees and fairways for all clubs, but especially the most precise ones.  Make the rough MUCH MUCH more random.  My experience is that the ball actually deviates less from the rough than the fairway which doesn't seem right.  A 10 ft circle on a 200yd shot from fairway seems reasonable.  As it stands now my belief is that circle is closer to 30 feet on dinged shots in moderate winds and much more extreme in high winds.  Any shot from any rough that isn't dinged should be severely penalized and even "rough" shots that are dinged should sometimes leave you scratching your head, even from 20 25 rough which I think is more accurate to hit from than the short grass.

    Make some noise people if you agree.  After nearly 2 years WGT finally listened to us about the fringe and altered it.  If enough us provide constructive feedback we might be able to fix this part of the game too.

     

  • jaderoks
    571 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 6:18 PM

    You hit the nail on the head Jake. That 3rd hole seems to have a mind of it's own. I've hit that shot while aiming for the right side of the green and ended up way left. I've also hit that shot with about the same wind and hit left of the ding line and had the ball go straight. This game....THIS GAME...

  • JuanMendoza
    469 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 6:19 PM

    Gotta agree with all of that Jake, especially deviations on long irons and woods. Also strongly agree on the light rough comment, it does seem more accurate than the fairway.

  • WGTicon
    12,511 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 6:31 PM

    jakestanfill7:

    WGTicon:
    if you hit 10 identical shots from 200 yards in identical wind with the most precise iron in the game, you still are likely to have 10ft circle, which means 1 shot can be 10ft left and other 10ft right,

    By that logic you're looking at a 20 foot circle.  10 ft radius = 20 ft diameter.  Add some high winds and you're looking at more like a 50 - 60 ft circle.

    Today I played (started and restarted) the Open qualifier many times.  3 times I had an 8mph wind directly at 9 oclock on #3 at RSG.  239 yd shot or something like that.  Dinged all 3 shots with that same wind.  Each time I aimed at the right edge of the green.  First shot nearly went in the hole.  Second shot actually went right against that wind and ended up in the right rough.  Third shot took off like a banana and came to rest left of the big hill on the left side of the green.  I don't know the dimensions of that green but in my estimation I don't think you could get all those shots in a 60 foot circle.

    Bottom line is deviations are maddening, especially when you have to fight a dogsh!t meter.  Finally ding a shot and it doesn't end up in the same area code that it should.

    My idea is to tighten up the circle greatly from the tees and fairways for all clubs, but especially the most precise ones.  Make the rough MUCH MUCH more random.  My experience is that the ball actually deviates less from the rough than the fairway which doesn't seem right.  A 10 ft circle on a 200yd shot from fairway seems reasonable.  As it stands now my belief is that circle is closer to 30 feet on dinged shots in moderate winds and much more extreme in high winds.  Any shot from any rough that isn't dinged should be severely penalized and even "rough" shots that are dinged should sometimes leave you scratching your head, even from 20 25 rough which I think is more accurate to hit from than the short grass.

    Make some noise people if you agree.  After nearly 2 years WGT finally listened to us about the fringe and altered it.  If enough us provide constructive feedback we might be able to fix this part of the game too.

     

    it's kinda hard to judge that jake. that green has a big slope + hills, so where ball landed not ended up can probably be easier to judge.

    also, you regularly shoot sub 60's and likely top5 player, so if it was even more precise, it would actually make u even better...

    also, you are talking about 240 yard shot.... my example was basic in perf conditions...maybe it's more than 10ft each way,i was simply guessing...

    -wgticon

  • bearclaw27
    553 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 7:19 PM

    jakestanfill7:

    Today I played (started and restarted) the Open qualifier many times.  3 times I had an 8mph wind directly at 9 oclock on #3 at RSG.  239 yd shot or something like that.  Dinged all 3 shots with that same wind.  Each time I aimed at the right edge of the green.  First shot nearly went in the hole.  Second shot actually went right against that wind and ended up in the right rough.  Third shot took off like a banana and came to rest left of the big hill on the left side of the green. 

    Duuude...Don't you watch ESPN..?..Think about real golf....You are hittin you are hittin a  full 3-wood into the wind..Would you really expect 3 different shots to end up in exactly the same place....?

  • Nicole161106
    281 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 8:06 PM

     jakestanfill7
        769 Posts
           
        07-15-2011 6:06 PM

            WGTicon:
            if you hit 10 identical shots from 200 yards in identical wind with the most precise iron in the game, you still

    are likely to have 10ft circle, which means 1 shot can be 10ft left and other 10ft right,

        By that logic you're looking at a 20 foot circle.  10 ft radius = 20 ft diameter.  Add some high winds and you're

    looking at more like a 50 - 60 ft circle.

        Today I played (started and restarted) the Open qualifier many times.  3 times I had an 8mph wind directly at 9

    oclock on #3 at RSG.  239 yd shot or something like that.  Dinged all 3 shots with that same wind.  Each time I aimed at

    the right edge of the green.  First shot nearly went in the hole.  Second shot actually went right against that wind and

    ended up in the right rough.  Third shot took off like a banana and came to rest left of the big hill on the left side of

    the green.  I don't know the dimensions of that green but in my estimation I don't think you could get all those shots in

    a 60 foot circle.

        Bottom line is deviations are maddening, especially when you have to fight a dogsh!t meter.  Finally ding a shot and

    it doesn't end up in the same area code that it should.


        My idea is to tighten up the circle greatly from the tees and fairways for all clubs, but especially the most precise

    ones.  Make the rough MUCH MUCH more random.  My experience is that the ball actually deviates less from the rough than

    the fairway which doesn't seem right.  A 10 ft circle on a 200yd shot from fairway seems reasonable.  As it stands now my

    belief is that circle is closer to 30 feet on dinged shots in moderate winds and much more extreme in high winds.  Any

    shot from any rough that isn't dinged should be severely penalized and even "rough" shots that are dinged should

    sometimes leave you scratching your head, even from 20 25 rough which I think is more accurate to hit from than the short

    grass.

        Make some noise people if you agree.  After nearly 2 years WGT finally listened to us about the fringe and altered

    it.  If enough us provide constructive feedback we might be able to fix this part of the game too.

    Make your mind up, you ding it all the time but have a dogshit meter?

    Doesn't make sense, does it?

  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2011 9:53 PM

    Nicole161106:

    Make your mind up, you ding it all the time but have a dogshit meter?

    Doesn't make sense, does it?

    No I don't come close to dinging every shot.  When meter is smooth I probably ding about 75% of shots but lately it's more like 40-50.  My point being there was a huge disparity in the shots I dinged on that green with the same exact wind.  I actually had that same wind about 8 times in the last 2 days but those were the only 3 shots that I dinged. 

    I do understand that you're hitting 3wood into #3 and anything can happen.  So here's another illustration with a PW which should be deadly in moderate winds.  RSG #1 12 tailwind at 1oclock from 123.  Had this shot and dinged it twice with variables exactly the same.  1/2 backspin 120 on meter expecting to be about 8 feet behind pin but giving myself a chance to hole it out.  First dinged shot flies 115 yds and stopped dead. Second flew 128 and rolled to 130.  Same conditions, same shot, 45 ft circle between the 2 with a PW.  That just seems a bit excessive to me with a scoring club.  Almost as big of a deviation as the 3 wood.

    Icon I understand your logic but hear me out.  A graduated scale where deviations are more substantial with long clubs like driver.  6 radius in feet for wedges, 7 for 9 iron, 8 for 8 iron and so on. Wedge would have possible deviation of 12 feet.  Pros don't often pure a wedge shot and end up farther than 12 feet from pin in normal conditions.

    The top of line R11 driver is far too accurate in my book.  As much as we bitched about the old TM driver it was probably truer to life than this R11.  Very good players with old driver were hitting about 75- 80% of fairways meaning they would have 3-4 shots from rough every round.  Those same players know the rough so well that they probably birdie 75% of time from rough which should be much lower in my opinion.  If rough was more penal and random, those same players would find themselves scrambling for par much more than they would making birdies.  With that given I think scoring could actually go up a stroke or two.

    Make chipping and pitching much more random. From a 40 50 lie you shouldn't be thinking I can hole this easily as it now from green side.  This would have a huge impact on scoring in my opinion. 

    Too many thoughts on the subject to keep going but hopefully you get my drift.  I truly believe the equations I speak of would actually make scoring a tad closer to realistic, then if one day we incorporate lie into the mix we'll be closer to nailing this thing.

     

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