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Suggestion regarding "cheaters"

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Mon, Jul 2 2012 6:00 PM (28 replies)
  • Blade7658
    452 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 2:55 PM

    Occasional disconnects are understandable, but if you are rouinely disconnecting (intentional or not) nobody wants to connect with you. Bottom line, if you are tryng to play a round, doesn't matter why the disconnect happened.

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 3:19 PM

    Blade7658:
    if you are routinely disconnecting (intentional or not) nobody wants to connect with you. Bottom line, if you are tryng to play a round, doesn't matter why the disconnect happened.

    Precisely. A disconnect is a disconnect no matter how it occurs.

  • MioKontic
    4,660 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 3:27 PM

    Ok, that's enough on the disconnects issue.  Now, how about the cheaters issue??  Oh, that's right, this thread isn't about cheaters really, it's about quitters.

  • genorb
    1,255 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 3:42 PM

    Hi Masterius,

    you proposed ideas and gave arguments, especially about potential risks, so that's what I call a good post. However, I do not like this kind of propositions for the following reasons.

    Masterius:

    • Like/dislike a player.  A player can, only when in-game with another player, have the option to select "like" or "dislike" for an opponent.  The total number of "likes" and "dislikes" would be viewable, as a minimum, when you look at a player's profile page.  

    This kind of things is potentially very bad (like player reputation that WGT planned to introduce at some point but they never did it because they probably realized that it was not easy and potentially bad).

    You indeed proposed a way to avoid unfair uses of this system, but that's not so easy. Eespecially tracking people that abuse the system by posting essentially a dislike, it gives more work to WGT to monitor everything because even if parts can be done automatically, they need to monitor all the process to see if nothing wrong is going on.

    The bottleneck is also that when everything is fine people are quiet, they shout only when there is a problem (there are much more posts in this forum about complains than posts saying that this game is great). So in practice, you will probably receive more "dislike" than "like" because after a round where everything is fine, people will not automatically post a "like", but if something went wrong (like simply losing the round :) ), you will get a "dislike", at least that's a risk.

    In general, trying separate the good ones from the bad ones, like by using a yellow star or a "like/dislike" for example, is very bad.

    Masterius:

    Add the following to all players' profile page:

    • The number of times a player has disconnected while:
    1. In a practice round, and
    2. In a ranked round.

    As I understand, what you propose is about solo rounds.

    Well, we should never forget that this is a game that we play during our rare moments of free time. What we are doing in a solo game should only matter to ourself, not to the others. If you quit a solo round, ranked or not, what is the problem for the others?

    Wanting to know too much about others and to spy them to see if they behave as few people think they should, has been done many times in the past (like the yellow star above), and it has many names: inquisition, McCarthyism etc.

    The real problem with disconnections is during multiplayer rounds (match play or alt shot game). But even in that case, that's not easy to track legitimate disconnection from an intentional one. It happens quite often that you get a real disconnection (you lose internet connection, or the gameclient crashes and you need to close it) and after that you cannot re-enter the game, clicking on the "continue" button has no effect, or you cannot reconnect within the allowed time. In that case, you would get penalized while it's not your fault.

    The easy solution is to built a nice friend list. I never have problem with players quitting.

    Regards

  • Masterius
    33 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 4:11 PM

    MioKontic:

    Ok, that's enough on the disconnects issue.  Now, how about the cheaters issue??  Oh, that's right, this thread isn't about cheaters really, it's about quitters.

    Obviously you either:

    1. Don't comprehend English, and/or,
    2. Have chosen to pursue a vendetta against me.

    Just as obviously I quote myself:

    Masterius:

    No, this thread is really about cheaters.  I've no idea why you've decided it's about quitters instead of cheaters.  And even if it had been, the other thread you're alluding to was a gripe and not a suggestion so, yes, I would consider it "necessary".  

    Having said that, I would have found your constructive critique a great deal more useful than an incorrect and invalid assumption.

    This suggestion was meant to address the problem with particular players suspected of: 

    1. disconnecting to get out of a game
    2. sandbagging
    3. cheating
    4. having multiple accounts

    The suggestion wouldn't have players suspected or alleged to have cheated banned or black-balled.  It would, however, enable players to gain a more balanced and overall perspective of a potential opponent. 

    By your mathematica 3 out of 4 --75%-- equals zero, since #s 2 thru 4 deal exclusively with cheaters.  And FYI, #1 also deals with cheaters; just because they're also quitters doesn't absolve them from cheating, too, does it?

     

    This is twice now you've posted a snotty, pissant reply.  If you don't have anything to contribute please go post someplace else.

    ~Masterius

     

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 5:37 PM

    Mio, like anyone, you can direct your attention somewhere else if you don't like what's being posted in this thread.

    You seem to think this thread is going to turn into another cheating thread directed at the top players. The OP never eluded to this in the least. You should let the OP's discussion unfold before making an assumption about where the dialogue in this thread is going.

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 5:53 PM

    MioKontic:

    Ok, that's enough on the disconnects issue.  Now, how about the cheaters issue??  Oh, that's right, this thread isn't about cheaters really, it's about quitters.

    Why don't you add to this instead of nitpicking the OP? Better yet, shut up  and go infect another thread. The OP's trying.

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Sun, Jul 1 2012 6:13 PM

    genorb:
    It happens quite often that you get a real disconnection (you lose internet connection, or the gameclient crashes and you need to close it) and after that you cannot re-enter the game, clicking on the "continue" button has no effect, or you cannot reconnect within the allowed time. In that case, you would get penalized while it's not your fault.

    Why can't all disconnects be viewed as the same? If a player disconnects continually, even if it isn't their fault, then who would want to play that person anyway? This is why Reputation Tracking should not have been called "Reputation" Tracking.

    People will always quit, or get disconnected through no fault of their own. You, along with your friends have experienced disconnections while playing the game, even when it wasn't yours, or their fault. 

    Everyone experiences dropped connections, this means everyone should have walked around with the albatross around their neck, so to speak. There will never be a player who can go 0% without experiencing a disconnect.

    Through time, the RT concept would have shown a high percentages of quitters versus a lower percentage of legitimate disconnects. People never gave it a chance. RT didn't even last 24 hours.

    I believe the OP has an idea, it just needs tweaked a bit.

  • SHRUDE
    5,835 Posts
    Mon, Jul 2 2012 12:06 AM

    genorb:
    everything is fine people are quiet, they shout only when there is a problem

    I concur - like/ dislike option WILL gather more dislikes.

    I single 'LIKE" button would be better - this forces the good 'pats on the back' instead of spiteful slaps in the face.

    genorb:
    The real problem with disconnections is during multiplayer rounds (match play or alt shot game). But even in that case, that's not easy to track legitimate disconnection from an intentional one. It happens quite often that you get a real disconnection (you lose internet connection, or the gameclient crashes and you need to close it) and after that you cannot re-enter the game, clicking on the "continue" button has no effect, or you cannot reconnect within the allowed time.

     

    Another valid point. 

    How often have I disconnected for whatever reason only to find the 'continue' button on reloading has no effect, yet the 'forfeit' button does!

    genorb:
    The easy solution is to built a nice friend list.

    Yup, as you move off Pro Tier there are less diconnects - for AVGE reasons anyway - as we progress in the game , we have learnt that crashing a game with a bad result - doesnt affect average.

     

    What is this about cheats?  How do you cheat?
    Sandbagging i understand is playing the system, but it isnt cheating is it?

     

     

     

  • alosso
    21,094 Posts
    Mon, Jul 2 2012 1:20 AM

    SHRUDE:

    What is this about cheats?  How do you cheat?

    Sandbagging i understand is playing the system, but it isnt cheating is it?

    Strictly speaking, cheating is to play against the rules, maybe to use them to one's own undue advantage.

    IMO, the only ways to cheat against the rules is multi-accounting, be it to collect credits or to use the skill advantages of a restart from Hack.

    Sandbagging may be undue advantage within the rules, if done intentionally and especially when used to win credits.

    My 2 credits

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