Forums

Someone please explain this to me

• oneeyedjohn 9,572 Posts

  Sat, Aug 11 2012 8:42 AM

  Boy ...and I thoght I was good at Maths

• 9,041 Posts

  Sat, Aug 11 2012 9:52 AM

  oneeyedjohn:

  Boy ...and I thoght I was good at Maths

  Can't really shed any enlightenment..but had a 62.18 ave went up ???? to 64.18 after a 11-  round on 'best of famous'??? but next time I logged in was 61.98 ?? think it just all evens out in the end ? Andy

• bhoese 679 Posts

  Sat, Aug 11 2012 3:45 PM

  Oldstir:

  You might be correct bhoese even though I don't understand your calculations. Because it still doesn't make any logical sense how my last 11 rounds as a Master, which averaged 63.9, out of the blue and all of a sudden, somehow became an exact 63.0 av? :) Indeed that's mathematically impossible.

  It's because the average doesn't include all of your scores, it is only your 40 best scores. 

  To simplify, let's say they used your 4 best scores instead of 40.  Let's say those 4 scores are 68, 66, 62 and 60.  The total of the four scores is 256.  256/4 is an average of 64.

  Now if you shoot a 66, it replaces the 68 in your four best.  66+66+62+60=254.  252/4= your new average of 63.5. 

  After that, you shoot a 64.  One of the 66s gets dropped.  66+64+62+60=252.  252/4= your new average of 63.

  That's how your average goes down with a score that is above that average.  If it was an average of all of your scores it would indeed be impossible for the average to drop with a higher score.  But because WGT uses an average of your best scores, this happens.

• alosso 21,060 Posts

  Sun, Aug 12 2012 12:04 AM

  Exellent explanation, BH!

  Oldstir:

  nickywinmar:

  average stops going up and down

  I think this happens only once you reach the TM tier? Because once I got my average under 62.0 as a TM; I have recorded 13 ranked rounds none of which were lower than 64 and my average has always stayed at 61.94. So I guess it makes no difference what scores you shoot as TM and your average won't go up and will only go down if you start shooting alot of rounds under 61? But I have shot 27 rounds of 62 or lower including about 49 rounds of 63 or lower as a TM if that helps but I think my average should have gone back up over 62.0 due to my last 13 rounds of 64 or higher. Anyway you probably remain a TM for life unless you can get your average under 60 or 61. Either/or unless you just shoot a gazillion rounds as a TM and then they make you a Legend simply because you played So Many rounds and/or because you reached a high enough Level such as Level 97 or something perhaps? I have no idea and don't care. :) I'm happy to remain a TM forever because I can't afford to buy better balls to improve my game anymore anyway. :)

  First of all, the level has nothing to do with the tier. The former is for industriousness, the latter for skills (and luck if you like).

  The average will go down only once a player leaves the "floating area", that is when he has played the minimum number of ranked rounds in his tier.

  In your scenario, after 27+49 rounds as a TM, the average will never go up again regardless of the future scores. Those 13 rounds will never make it into the calculation.

  Alas, I doubt that an honest player will stay in a tier forever because there will be an occasional great round (one in a gazillion lol), and a few of them will eventually crunch the average far enough to tier up.

• Oldstir 434 Posts

  Sun, Aug 12 2012 9:10 AM

  bhoese:

  Oldstir:

  You might be correct bhoese even though I don't understand your calculations. Because it still doesn't make any logical sense how my last 11 rounds as a Master, which averaged 63.9, out of the blue and all of a sudden, somehow became an exact 63.0 av? :) Indeed that's mathematically impossible.

  It's because the average doesn't include all of your scores, it is only your 40 best scores. 

  To simplify, let's say they used your 4 best scores instead of 40.  Let's say those 4 scores are 68, 66, 62 and 60.  The total of the four scores is 256.  256/4 is an average of 64.

  Now if you shoot a 66, it replaces the 68 in your four best.  66+66+62+60=254.  252/4= your new average of 63.5. 

  After that, you shoot a 64.  One of the 66s gets dropped.  66+64+62+60=252.  252/4= your new average of 63.

  That's how your average goes down with a score that is above that average.  If it was an average of all of your scores it would indeed be impossible for the average to drop with a higher score.  But because WGT uses an average of your best scores, this happens.

  Yes I see what you're saying but I never had more than 6 rounds of 62 or better as a Master. Therefore, that's why it's 'mathematically impossible' to reach a 63.0 average based on 40 best scores. You see? :)  And so "those last 11 rounds as a Master which averaged 69.9", could not possibly bring the average down to 63. So there's No Way they could find 6 + another 34 rounds = 40 to get the average down to 63 because no other 34 rounds were 63 or lower. Therefore it's clear to me that they calculate tier movement by their own secret method while perhaps also giving Extra credit for a certain number of low sub-60 rounds, plus the number of ranked rounds completed plus things like consistency to shoot 49 rounds of 63 or less and/or 25 consecutive rounds in the 60s or less yada yada yada and who knows what else? :) I even saw a Legend get knocked back down to TM. So who knows how they actually calculate tier movement but I'm not complaining about it at all. I'm simply saying what happened in my case. And I think Levels most certainly do have have something to do with their calculation but perhaps only in tiers of than Legend and TM? Take for example; I saw a player that was only level 42 but they are a TM. How is that even possible? ;)

  So if "that" is possible, then 'Never reaching legend' is likely possible too? Because, in my case only, I know I will never get my average under 61 until and unless I can afford to buy better balls like I was once able to do in order to shoot the low scores you need to reach legend. Which means; the only way I'll see legend is if I play a

  gazillion-gazillion rounds and they simply take pity on you and grant me legend status because I might die first? :) And I don't think they would ever do that either? But I can't compete with legends anyway using free balls so like I said; I'm better off stuck in TM tier forever anyway. At least I get to play the odd fair ALT match with legends but it's almost impossible to get an ALT match with TMs/Legends because many simply won't play players of equal tier. Many TMs and Legends are now preying on the Master's tier because they refuse to play Each Other anymore for whatever reason? It's gone beyond ridiculous in my opinion. Even I have now been forced to search the Master's tier for any chance of finding an ALT game. Except, I always make sure there are 2 Master's players or I won't play because it's not a fair match to have 3 TM's and only 1 Master or 2 Legends, a TM and only 1 Master etc. etc. etc. Likewise, if there are 3 Masters, I will bow out and let them find another Master rather than playing a possible unfair match-up.

   

   

• bhoese 679 Posts

  Sun, Aug 12 2012 10:35 AM

  Oldstir:

  I never had more than 6 rounds of 62 or better as a Master.

  9 hole rounds doubled count the same an 18 (a 30 counts exactly the same as a 60), so there were at least 13 in your score history. 62 62 61 59 60 27 (nice!) 29 30 62 31 30 30 30.  That's 13 rounds totaling 779 the way they figure it. (I'd prefer they only counted 9s as half of 18s, but they don't).

  A 63 average over 40 rounds = 2520 total strokes.

  2520 minus the 779 in the 13 rounds above leaves 1741 strokes over the remaining 27 rounds to get to a 40 round average of 63.  That's an average of 64.48 for the remaining 27.  You had plenty of scores in the 63-66 range that filled out your top 40.

  The averages for all of the tiers are counted this way without any extra factors...for now.  One of the WGT employees mentioned in the forum a couple of weeks ago that tournament wins will contribute to tier advancement in the future.

• alosso 21,060 Posts

  Sun, Aug 12 2012 10:39 AM

  Oldstir:

  Yes I see what you're saying but I never had more than 6 rounds of 62 or better as a Master.

  Sure? Bet for a sleeve of Callies?

  Here's what I found in your score history, all scores from your Master tier games:

  54 (a fabulous 27 at STA front nine more than a year ago)
  58
  59
  60
  60
  60
  60
  60
  61
  62
  62
  62
  62

  These are 13(!) scores from April 16th, 2011, plus 2x63, 12x64, 12x65 and one 66. All relevant scores for your tier-up are still there, perfectly matching the 63.00 average.

  (Did you know that 9 hole results are doubled and count the same than 18 holes rounds?)

  No evidence of other influence than your pure scores.

   

  Now, as a Tour Master, your average is already below 62, and you tell me you won't make Legend? I'm convinced that you'll do it this year.

  Evidence? You have 28 TM rounds between 58 and 62, adding to an average of 60.96. In no time you'll get more of those, and then...

   

  Having said that, your appearance as an "almost Legend" with level 90 may appear intimidating for some, and if you pick up some WGT balls you need not worry for the tips.

  Hit it straight!

• Oldstir 434 Posts

  Sun, Aug 12 2012 2:31 PM

  alosso:

  Oldstir:

  Yes I see what you're saying but I never had more than 6 rounds of 62 or better as a Master.

  Sure? Bet for a sleeve of Callies?

  Here's what I found in your score history, all scores from your Master tier games:

  54 (a fabulous 27 at STA front nine more than a year ago)
  58
  59
  60
  60
  60
  60
  60
  61
  62
  62
  62
  62

  These are 13(!) scores from April 16th, 2011, plus 2x63, 12x64, 12x65 and one 66. All relevant scores for your tier-up are still there, perfectly matching the 63.00 average.

  (Did you know that 9 hole results are doubled and count the same than 18 holes rounds?)

  No evidence of other influence than your pure scores.

   

  Now, as a Tour Master, your average is already below 62, and you tell me you won't make Legend? I'm convinced that you'll do it this year.

  Evidence? You have 28 TM rounds between 58 and 62, adding to an average of 60.96. In no time you'll get more of those, and then...

   

  Having said that, your appearance as an "almost Legend" with level 90 may appear intimidating for some, and if you pick up some WGT balls you need not worry for the tips.

  Hit it straight!

  Thanks; no I didn't know that 9s doubled as 18 but I did mention in my last post that really good sub-par nines may play a factor. I actually have three rounds of 59 and one round of 58 for an 18-hole round as a Master and I'm sure you guys know what you're talking about and are correct. But I still can't get passed how the last 11 rounds as a Master which averaged only 63.9, all of a sudden, calculates to 63.0. :) Makes no difference to me though. It's done and I'll take it.

  But what do you mean by "if you pick up some WGT balls"? Last time I checked, the WGT balls I was using cost 94 or 97 credits for 3 and as I said, I can't afford to buy better balls anymore. So I won't be picking up any WGT balls unless they become free. I've got some Callaway and WGT bonus balls which are of no use to me that I would give away to whoever wants them but I don't know how to do that.

  It's funny though because once when I tried Callaways, it didn't slow the meter down at all. But the Callaways I have now, do slow the meter down noticeably. Too bad I can't afford them; otherwise I might have been able to reach legend tier one day? And hitting free balls straight, still doesn't give you a chance to shoot sub-63 scores because your approach shots are still 75 yards longer than those players who can afford Callaways etc.

  IMO, only the Cream of the Crop top 1% of players who have the God-given ability to hit free balls straight almost every time AS WELL AS being able to get 200+ yard approach shots onto the green and under 10 feet for possible birdie putts, can reach Legend tier using free balls. :)  I know I can't but I'm sure there are a few on this site who can. In fact, I won't even finish rounds now if I know they will end up 63 or higher. So I just play as a pastime now, not competitively. And as my last 8 rounds or so demonstrate, I can't shoot better than 64 anymore because I'm stuck using free balls from now on and I'm basically not recording complete rounds anymore. But thanks for doing all that checking my scoring history and 'somehow' showing me that 'somehow' it eventually qualified me for TM. I just don't get it. :)