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My 2 cents about tiers, levels and equipment

• alosso 21,094 Posts

  Sun, Aug 26 2012 1:42 PM

  The coordination and - more - the discrepancies between tiers, levels and equipment have created many threads, disputes and ideas in the community. They all find their limit in WGTs view of organisation and profit (no pun intended).

   

  Here is what I imagine to be a new solution with some fairness:

  Let equipment be level-orientated like it is now, the only difference being that the tiers follow average OR equipment

  I.e. when so. buys certain equipment which is typical for a certain tier, he is pushed up into that tier if necessary. E.g. advance to level 59, buy a piece of G20 equipment and - woosh - you are at least a Master.

  If you decide to stick with minor equipment you may stay in a lower tier unless your average eventually calls for a change (same conditions as today).

  What do you think about this?

• chris5214 1,937 Posts

  Sun, Aug 26 2012 3:17 PM

  alosso:

  The coordination and - more - the discrepancies between tiers, levels and equipment have created many threads, disputes and ideas in the community. They all find their limit in WGTs view of organisation and profit (no pun intended).

   

  Here is what I imagine to be a new solution with some fairness:

  Let equipment be level-orientated like it is now, the only difference being that the tiers follow average OR equipment

  I.e. when so. buys certain equipment which is typical for a certain tier, he is pushed up into that tier if necessary. E.g. advance to level 59, buy a piece of G20 equipment and - woosh - you are at least a Master.

  If you decide to stick with minor equipment you may stay in a lower tier unless your average eventually calls for a change (same conditions as today).

  What do you think about this?

  i think we should have another game soon .. lol

  but yeah .. i agree with the broad strokes of your idea Paul ..

  i'm sure u've also seen the threads where some suggest restricting the ability of higher level clubs being bought by high-level, low-tier players .. also an interesting premise

  either way, it will combat sandbagging to an extent .. question is, does WGT want that ?

• dflop 1,877 Posts

  Sun, Aug 26 2012 6:00 PM

  alosso:

  Let equipment be level-orientated like it is now, the only difference being that the tiers follow average OR equipment

  I.e. when so. buys certain equipment which is typical for a certain tier, he is pushed up into that tier if necessary. E.g. advance to level 59, buy a piece of G20 equipment and - woosh - you are at least a Master.

  If you decide to stick with minor equipment you may stay in a lower tier unless your average eventually calls for a change (same conditions as today).

  What do you think about this?

  Nice idea  !

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Sun, Aug 26 2012 6:58 PM

  From a business standpoint it is not a very good idea. Restricting sales means less revenue for WGT. A player who is not at the particular skill level is not going to purchase clubs that are going to arbitrarily push him to play at a difficulty level he can't handle or takes the enjoyment out of the game.

  I'm much more in favor of restricting the performance of the clubs based on the tier of the player. Something along the lines of full distance for Tour Legend and Legend, 95% for Tour Master, 90% for Master, 85% for Tour Pro, 80% for Pro, etc. You will see a lot fewer sandbaggers at the Pro level waiting around to buy the r11s driver when it only goes 227 yards. Apply the same restrictions to irons, forcing the lower levels to hit a longer iron than a Legend to get the same distance.

  That more closely mimics the way clubs work in real life. The average player does not hit the same clubs as far as a good professional. He does, however, still get to buy them and use them. From any tee.

• dflop 1,877 Posts

  Mon, Aug 27 2012 3:06 AM

  srellim234:

  I'm much more in favor of restricting the performance of the clubs based on the tier of the player. Something along the lines of full distance for Tour Legend and Legend, 95% for Tour Master, 90% for Master, 85% for Tour Pro, 80% for Pro, etc. You will see a lot fewer sandbaggers at the Pro level waiting around to buy the r11s driver when it only goes 227 yards. Apply the same restrictions to irons, forcing the lower levels to hit a longer iron than a Legend to get the same distance.

  Ah nice suggestion , i am like a rabbit jumping from one side of the fence to the other  !  lol 

• alosso 21,094 Posts

  Mon, Aug 27 2012 3:46 AM

  IMO both variants aren't  too far from each other. Both limit the players' possible advantages of high-class clubs, that being shorter shots into the greens with more precision - de-motivating to buy the clubs.

  From that perspective, I don't value the impact of my "forced tier-up" higher than the other, it's just another approach.

  Major difference is that there are no (tier or length) limits but consequences:

  "Want those R11s at  level 90 - welcome to Legend status!"

  OTOH, any industrious player might buy himself into Legend once the clubs are available to him.

   

  Anyway, since both variants are likely to cut into WGT's selling numbers, their realisation may be improbable. Having said this, sandbagging might not be a problem for WGT but a business opportunity (pun intended).

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Mon, Aug 27 2012 7:11 AM

  alosso - the 5% reduction plan would not drastically reduce overall club sales, only club sales to sandbaggers. It still provides a small incremental increase every time a player buys better clubs. Regular players will still buy them for the other attributes as well, looking forward to the automatic 5% distance increase they'll receive when they tier up.

  It will not stop sandbagging completely but it will drastically reduce the advantage gained from it.

• alosso 21,094 Posts

  Mon, Aug 27 2012 7:44 AM

  I don't want to argue with you because our ideas stay far in theory - it's up to WGT to decide. I take the freedom to summarize your statement from that view:

  srellim234:

  the 5% reduction plan would not drastically reduce overall club sales, only club sales to sandbaggers.

  In your former post you commented on my idea:

  From a business standpoint it is not a very good idea. Restricting sales means less revenue for WGT.

  See the difference? (I don't, lol)

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Mon, Aug 27 2012 2:10 PM

  I do. One plan will reduce sales a lot more than the other. Unless you're assuming that the majority of club sales are to sandbaggers and not to regular players.

  I do have questions about your proposal. Would a person be allowed to go up and down based on how the bag is equipped rather than being decided by the equipment they own but aren't using? Would the player ever be allowed to go back to shorter tees at all? I certainly would not buy equipment that's going to throw me into a tougher game if I can't go back or I have to sell it back at a financial loss to make it happen.

  Either proposal is going to be an improvement over what is happening now. I am trying to come up with a solution that fits WGTs stated goal of making this game more realistic.

  I agree with you wholeheartedly about WGT involvement. They have to be willing to take a small reduction is sales now to help their long term prospects and they won't even come into any of these discussions to talk it over. It would be nice to get WGTPizza's perspective on these things.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Aug 27 2012 2:23 PM

  srellim234:

  They have to be willing to take a small reduction is sales now to help their long term prospects

  This doesn't fit. The long term prospect is always going to be the bottom line. Addressing sandbaggers by forfeiting income benefits who? A very small % of the players unless you think sandbagging is running rampant. I don't think it is. 

  WGT maintains they will never change equipment specs. That, alone, kills the reduced yardage suggestion, as good as it is. If keeping everything as real as possible is the goal, the only way I can see to curtail the sandbagging is to match up the tees with the top player in the group. Then it's moot. In fact, I believe TL's will now have a nice advantage in the green speeds. Having all the top equipment in a lower tier gives you the advantage in that tier but the same equipment from the same tees as a Legend or TL isn't going to do you any good if you don't know the game from that distance. Advantage higher tier player.  :-)