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Uneven lies...HERE WE GO :-)

Sat, Dec 29 2012 12:34 PM (184 replies)
  • SGTBilko
    1,686 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 5:24 AM

    I wrote this in the other thread, 
     Understanding the Lie and its effects can radically change the entire way we play this game and I think this is something that has long been over due. Many of us have been asking for WGT to create a more realistic golfing game, to say this new addition makes it unrealistic is rather silly in my opinion.  Others have posted “this is going to make the game total guess work!”, while I agree there is some logic to that statement, I have to ask how this is no different than real golf? Whether amateur or pro there is multiple dynamics that effect how the game is played. There is no mathematical certainty to real golf…


    Some have stated they were hitting early/late to counter the effects of the lie; this is counter-productive since this is not a true fade/draw and reduces the power of the shot (I will address the draw/fade). I agree, the effects are a bit over exaggerated and need to be tweaked, but seeing how this is only the 2nd day and WGT stated they will be watching the forum boards, I am quite sure this is an easy fix/tweak. All too often on a golf course there is not just one effect on the ball due to the lie. Taking this into consideration while practicing on BP #2 my 2nd shot was an uphill & above my feet. I adjusted to what I thought was the correct target and distance +wind movement. I overshot the target by about 10 feet. To say it was the games fault right now would be silly on my part, I believe more practice is required to understand the effects now. So, what are some of the glaring things that we need as players to assist us;

    1.       Lie indicator:

    The use of the grids on the fairway seem a bit too busy to me. Just give me the ability to turn it off under my player’s feet and leave it under the ball picture. The current indicator is ok but how do you really know the balls true lie is it uphill or downhill as well as above or below the feet.

    2.       Replay: Show the grid when utilizing replay, this will help us understand the dynamics of the shot and enhance the learning process

     

    The Pandora’s Box:
    WGT has now opened up the Pandora box of the ball flight laws. In so much if you are going to add the physics of the effects of the balls lie to the game dynamics you must now add the ability of the players to utilize the if not all at least some of the 9 different ball flights. My good friend on here YankeeJim touched on this a little bit.  There are 3 major dynamics that players utilize to affect the ball, at a minimum these now need to be added to the game play.
    a. Out-to-In
    b.  In-to-In (we have this)
    c.  In-to-Out

    By adding these 2 dynamics you give the players on here the ability to create the following shots,

    Being that this may be to much to program, I would not know how about at least giving us the ability to create an open or closed stance so that we can truly utilize a draw or fade. Great Job on trying the create a more true golf environment WGT.
     
     so far that is the biggest problem, the lower end lies seem pretty easy to adjust to and figure out with reasonable certainty where it is going. Steep lies and bunkers are way, way, way off.  When faced with an uphill and downhill lies in the sand The set-up is slightly different than with the normal technique. The stance is more open to the target - (this is the problem, the avatar is set up for a normal shot but the dynamics of the effects are throwing the ball to the right and short) about 15 to 25 degrees open instead of 10 to 15 degrees for level sand shots - with the clubhead slightly open. The ball is positioned off the left heel for uphill shots. You then swing the club upward on the forward motion in a direction conducive to the slope of the lie. In other words, if you have a 30 degree upward sloped lie, you wouldn't want to make a perpendicular or 90 degree entry into the sand which is kind of what we are faced with. You see, we have the effect now of the lie but we do not have the ability to adjust the angle like I pointed out in my earlier post. Bottom line, I love the fact that we now have the lie factor but you have to give the players the ability to control the angle of the shot. 

     

    There are four types of sloping lies, each demanding adjustments to your swing and stance. Almost any slope, no matter how slight will affect the impact of the clubface on the ball. You will need to adjust your address position and/or your swing to take account of these special situations.

  • SteveW65
    4,540 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 5:48 AM

    SGTBilko - for me, the real question is what do the majority of players here really want. Sure, there are quite a few players like yourself who maybe understand the dynamics of real golf better than most, but I suspect there are many who haven't got a clue what you are babbling on about! There will also be those who think wgt is just about spot on now (ideally with a smoother swing meter!), as it is. After all, it's only a virtual golf game - it's not real! A lot play here for fun - not to have to work out loads of mathematical equations to be anywhere near the hole or any good.

    I've played a few rounds and, just like it has been up to now, once you have it worked out it's fairly easy (apart from those impossible shots/bunker shots that are just stupid). My main point is if they're doing it to make it tougher, the best will still end up blowing away the rest. Only trouble is, the rest of us who aren't that good and only play for fun, won't be having as much fun. The fun players will be the losers.

    Bring it in sure, but please wgt, make it an option.

    Now, where's that 'Actua Golf' disc for my playstation lol....

  • SGTBilko
    1,686 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 5:57 AM

    SteveW65:

    SGTBilko - for me, the real question is what do the majority of players here really want. Sure, there are quite a few players like yourself who maybe understand the dynamics of real golf better than most, but I suspect there are many who haven't got a clue what you are babbling on about! There will also be those who think wgt is just about spot on now (ideally with a smoother swing meter!), as it is. After all, it's only a virtual golf game - it's not real! A lot play here for fun - not to have to work out loads of mathematical equations to be anywhere near the hole or any good.

    I've played a few rounds and, just like it has been up to now, once you have it worked out it's fairly easy (apart from those impossible shots/bunker shots that are just stupid). My main point is if they're doing it to make it tougher, the best will still end up blowing away the rest. Only trouble is, the rest of us who aren't that good and only play for fun, won't be having as much fun. The fun players will be the losers.

    Bring it in sure, but please wgt, make it an option.

    Now, where's that 'Actua Golf' disc for my playstation lol....

    Well, I have to agree it should be an option but my point was, you cannot have one with out the other. If you are going to have uneven lies then you have to have the ability to draw or fade your shot....no babble intended.... Check on the shelf, that is where you left it last.

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 6:00 AM

    What SGT Bilko is going on about makes a lot of sense, but would it over complicate this game and add even more ways for bum shots to occur, either by programming or us getting it totally wrong, yes the new lie will eventually be a good thing, and proper fade & draw might help us combat it, but at present wouldn't it be much better just to deviate the shots by say 5% until we get the hang of it, and WGT get is spot on because a 225 iron hit on a slight uphill lie shouldn't land 50 yards short, and a 25 yard pitch shot shouldn't go 6 yards!  

  • SteveW65
    4,540 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 6:03 AM

    Agreed - if we're going to have uneven lies, let us have the tools to counter them, as we have in real golf.

    <didn't mean babble nastily>

    Ah.. there it is, you're right! Right next to Gran Turismo (the wife hid them after about a month of me not sleeping!). Roll on the weekend - stocking beer in fridge now. :)

  • SGTBilko
    1,686 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 6:09 AM

    no offense taken on that, I do tend to over complicate sometimes! My point was really to WGT that you cannot have one without the other. I only pointed out the dynamics so that they (wgt) understand this...if that makes sense...

     

  • chris5214
    1,937 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 6:22 AM

    SGTBilko:

    no offense taken on that, I do tend to over complicate sometimes! My point was really to WGT that you cannot have one without the other. I only pointed out the dynamics so that they (wgt) understand this...if that makes sense...

     

    makes perfect sense .. it would be like pouring water without the glass .. u have to have both .. & i play real golf, so i know that marginal uneven lies (green gridded lies) aren't that much affected .. it requires only slight adjustments on the club face without sacrificing much, if any, distance ..

  • upinsmoketour
    342 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 7:01 AM

    +1 totally agree steve when this does get brought into play it should be optional.Me & im sure many others play this game for FUN & couldn't care less if they have a low avg !  It means nothing ! I'm sure loads of others will simply either leave or close there account & start again. If it does get brought in for say MASTER & above all its doing is giving all the sandbaggers an even bigger advantage than they get at the minute. Hope we find out soon what tier its going to start  before i top up any more money. As i wont spend another penny or cent  in this game untill i find out  because when it comes out its been fun but it will be bye bye WGT !       smoke.

  • JaRTennBogey
    74 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 7:14 AM

    SGTBilko:
    Understanding the Lie and its effects can radically change the entire way we play this game
     

    I agree 100%---however i feel that WGT needs to give us some idea of what the down/uphill /side-hill lie is.Such as they give us a % of a rough lie currently.We have to at least be given some idea of what we are facing.Our putting grid is large enough for us to figure a putt out(or so we think--lol),the small grid for the uneven lies gives but a tiny clue.

  • SGTBilko
    1,686 Posts
    Mon, Sep 3 2012 7:20 AM

    upinsmoketour:

    +1 totally agree steve when this does get brought into play it should be optional.Me & im sure many others play this game for FUN & couldn't care less if they have a low avg !  It means nothing ! I'm sure loads of others will simply either leave or close there account & start again. If it does get brought in for say MASTER & above all its doing is giving all the sandbaggers an even bigger advantage than they get at the minute. Hope we find out soon what tier its going to start  before i top up any more money. As i wont spend another penny or cent  in this game untill i find out  because when it comes out its been fun but it will be bye bye WGT !       smoke.

    not my words but my exact sentiment 

    "Have any of you gentlemen, the wgt programmers, engineers and players played MS Links Golf (last version Links 2003) in a skilled ranking? If programmed properly it is very possible to have all of these features; uneven lies, open/closed club face, ball in stance, inside/outside swings in a golf simulation game and have it play excellent. All of which can, given a proper menu selection, be selected and implemented quickly.  More challenging yes but very realistic. "

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