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Height changes on green

• MainzMan 9,593 Posts

  Sun, Dec 9 2012 11:21 AM

  Today I managed to find myself taking a putt from the front left edge of the green on St. Andrews #17, yes I know, my fault, but it did highlight something that could be improved.

  My putt was 56' with a 2' rise.   However, am I right in thinking that the rise could have been anywhere between 18 and 30 inches?  I allowed for 2 feet and the ball came up nearly 8 feet short so I assume the actual rise was something like 28 or so.

  I guess the answer will be no but would it be possible to have rise or fall to the hole given in inches regardless of how much it is?  I imagine it would be quite a lot of work so I'm not realistically expecting it to happen but maybe any new courses could be done this way.

  It would be nice to see if a putt is 19 or 29 inches uphill rather that simply being told 2 feet.

• courteneyfish 15,796 Posts

  Sun, Dec 9 2012 12:12 PM

  I find it better to use a wedge from there.

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Sun, Dec 9 2012 12:55 PM

  If it was from the front left I think you misread the putt - its would be a 2 foot rise not 2 inches. Regardless a wedge would probably have been a better option.

• ApexPC 3,164 Posts

  Sun, Dec 9 2012 6:03 PM

  Over the 56 feet there could be other up/down green undulations.

  The 2 feet shown in the aiming box is just the difference from where the ball sits and the hole is, and does not account for other up/down in between.

  You may have to consider a long putt in multiple segments.

  For example:

  42 foot birdie putt - Kiawah #5

  Here is the replay. The aiming box stated the elevation change was 9".

  http://www.wgt.com/gameclient.aspx?view=showReplay&JSON=%257B%2522GUID%2522%253A%252214e0ecb5-1862-47c5-aeca-a107011b45b2%2522%252C%2522Brand%2522%253A%2522%2522%257D

  I have been making more long putts, and keeping the ball closer to the hole for second putts by using a putt distance factor of 1.3 +- any up or down, which usually leaves just enough extra so I'm sure the putt doesn't come up short of the hole.

  For this putt 17 divided by 1.3 + 1 = 14 feet and 24 divided by 1.3 - 10 = 8.5

  The first 17 feet of this putt went uphill 1 inch, leaving the remaining 24 feet being 10 inches downhill,

  I determined that at Kiawah, tournament speed greens the first 17 feet required an equivalent putt stroke power of 14 feet, and that the remaining downhill 24 feet required an equivalent stroke of 8.5 feet. Adding the 2 values together gave me the total stroke power value of 22.5 feet.

  I chose the aiming point, stroked and drained the in-the-heart-of-the-cup 41 foot putt.

  From the #1 replay view you can see the 4 or 5 breaks the putt had on it's way to the hole.

   

   

• MainzMan 9,593 Posts

  Mon, Dec 10 2012 6:26 AM

  alanti:

  If it was from the front left I think you misread the putt - its would be a 2 foot rise not 2 inches. Regardless a wedge would probably have been a better option.

  Not sure where you read 2 inches, the ' indicates feet, inches would be ".

  I've never used a wedge on a green and since I was on a good round, finished 16 under, I didn't want to try something new and risk screwing it all up.  I've been a real golfer a lot longer than a WGT one and using a wedge on the green just feels wrong.  I'm not saying others shouldn't do it, it's just not something I'd try.

  I appreciate the comments but somehow my point didn't seem to be taken.  That is, when we're told the rise is 2 feet, how do we know if it's 18 inches or 30 inches?  Even for those using a wedge this makes a difference.   I do sometimes break the putt down into shorter ones as suggested but the first 10 or so feet have a huge rise when you're playing from where I was so the height indicator very quickly switches to feet which is pretty much useless for accurately judging how hard to hit.

  My request is simply to have a 2 foot height difference shown as 24 inches and a 29 inch one as 29 inches, not 2 feet as it currently is.

• jayheels 148 Posts

  Mon, Dec 10 2012 8:47 AM

  MainzMan:

  alanti:

  If it was from the front left I think you misread the putt - its would be a 2 foot rise not 2 inches. Regardless a wedge would probably have been a better option.

  Not sure where you read 2 inches, the ' indicates feet, inches would be ".

  I've never used a wedge on a green and since I was on a good round, finished 16 under, I didn't want to try something new and risk screwing it all up.  I've been a real golfer a lot longer than a WGT one and using a wedge on the green just feels wrong.  I'm not saying others shouldn't do it, it's just not something I'd try.

  I appreciate the comments but somehow my point didn't seem to be taken.  That is, when we're told the rise is 2 feet, how do we know if it's 18 inches or 30 inches?  Even for those using a wedge this makes a difference.   I do sometimes break the putt down into shorter ones as suggested but the first 10 or so feet have a huge rise when you're playing from where I was so the height indicator very quickly switches to feet which is pretty much useless for accurately judging how hard to hit.

  My request is simply to have a 2 foot height difference shown as 24 inches and a 29 inch one as 29 inches, not 2 feet as it currently is.

  Makes perfect sense to me and sounds easy to do as well good luck with your request.

• hatcojack 410 Posts

  Mon, Dec 10 2012 10:06 AM

  agreed, all elevations should be shown in INCHES!!

• WGTicon 12,511 Posts

  Mon, Dec 10 2012 10:16 AM

  The elevation is just 1 variable...

  You have to see where elevation is located. If it's in first part of the putt, then likely it plays much shorter than it says, if it's at the end, the opposite is true.

  You also have to look at the rest of the putt. If it flat? is there drops or rises which may slow down or increase speed. It's not just 100+2ft=124 x green speed coefficient :)

  -wgticon

• MainzMan 9,593 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 11:19 AM

  WGTicon:

   

  It's not just 100+2ft=124 x green speed coefficient :)

  I know there are other variables Icon but when the first 10 feet of a putt have 2 feet of rise it's pretty much impossible to accurately judge rises and falls for the remainder of the putt since wherever you move the marker you'll be shown 2 feet.  I know the colour of the grid indicates up or down slope but that's a bit vague.

  If it's technically too difficult to change I understand, please feel free to say so.

• rglrguy 442 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 11:38 AM

  Mainz,

  Point well taken, and I agree. On an approach shot your distance left to the hole is in yards. However when you go to putt, it will say (on a 2 yard shot) anywhere from 8.5 feet to 3.5 feet. The rise and fall should be converted to inches also, seems logical to me.