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Height changes on green

• Ffudd 2,541 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 11:51 AM

  Sounds a good idea and seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do - is this something you could ask about please Icon ?

  FWIW Mainz, the scale changes 22 inches > 23 inches > 2 feet so if it says 2 feet you know it is at least 24 inches. I usually move the target around and see if I can find where it changes to 23 inches then guess how much higher the pin is from there.

• Ffudd 2,541 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 12:17 PM

  ApexPC:

  For this putt 17 divided by 1.3 + 1 = 14 feet and 24 divided by 1.3 - 10 = 8.5

  The first 17 feet of this putt went uphill 1 inch, leaving the remaining 24 feet being 10 inches downhill,

  I determined that at Kiawah, tournament speed greens the first 17 feet required an equivalent putt stroke power of 14 feet, and that the remaining downhill 24 feet required an equivalent stroke of 8.5 feet. Adding the 2 values together gave me the total stroke power value of 22.5 feet.

  You get the same result just from the overall distance and drop . . .

  41 divided by 1.3 - 9 = 22.5 feet

  The undulations between the ball and the pin affect the path of the ball (as it travels slower over some sections so breaks more) but they don't have much effect, if any, on the overall distance.

  The exception would be if you had a ridge in front of you then a steep drop to the pin - you have to hit it hard enough to get over the ridge but that might take the ball a good distance past the hole. But that's better than hitting it the "right" distance to reach the hole and stalling half way up the ridge.

• alosso 21,094 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 12:52 PM

  Ffudd:

  FWIW Mainz, the scale changes 22 inches > 23 inches > 2 feet so if it says 2 feet you know it is at least 24 inches. I usually move the target around and see if I can find where it changes to 23 inches then guess how much higher the pin is from there.

  So that's good for the 2' area.

  Alas, 3 feet up may vary by 12 inches, giving an insecurity of 12 feet putting length (from the rule of thumb on very fast greens) or much more on faster greens.

  Take these putts from the Putting CTTH as examples:

  #3: 71 ft, 3 ft down. Is it -33 or -42? quite decisive on champ greens.

  #4: 103' + 3'

  #5: 55' - 2' = a bit easier

  #8: 260' - 5'

  #9: 87' - 4'

  Of course I know that the latter situation requires about a 30' putt because I've done it quite often. Alas, on any "free" putt on any round we don't have this memory, so it would be nice to know if it's 87 -42 or 87 -54.

• JimbeauC 5,835 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 1:16 PM

  MainzMan:

  It would be nice to see if a putt is 19 or 29 inches uphill rather that simply being told 2 feet.

  Amen. A perfectly straight forward and easy to understand request. I do wonder why some seem to think you were asking for a putting/playing lesson.

  Ffudd:

  scale changes 22 inches > 23 inches > 2 feet so if it says 2 feet you know it is at least 24 inches.

  I'd noticed this as well. I can't seem to figure out where it goes to 3 feet, though. So I guess it's possible that a 2 foot rise could be anywhere from 24 - 36 inches.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 1:56 PM

  MainzMan:

  I know there are other variables Icon but when the first 10 feet of a putt have 2 feet of rise it's pretty much impossible to accurately judge rises and falls for the remainder of the putt since wherever you move the marker you'll be shown 2 feet.

  That putt is a CTTH putt. Play the SA  CTTH and you can get back there in 7 shots. I have always added the 24" and used the 300 ft scale. Read the putt from reverse and know that that initial up the hill is mostly overcome by the strength of the putt. It levels off quite nicely and rolls fairly straight from there. The trick is getting the strength right and paying attention to the wind.

• bubbadork 984 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 2:41 PM

  I can pretty much 4-putt the toughest green, so what's the problem?

• Blade7658 452 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 8:57 PM

  While my chances of making that putt are slim to none, I agee with Mainz on this - telling us he elevation in feet is not helping as much as inches and inches would be an easy change to the program. Most of us are lagging this put and since "2 feet" has quite a range of inches, the lag could be many feet off, even if well aimed. Icon,any chance of a change or an explanation on why it can't/won't be changed?

   

• Foresight0311 1,212 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 9:50 PM

  Mainzman, strangely, paraprosdokians and logic fail to find critical mass support!  The essence of what is being said is overlooked, and wisdom begins to flow unsolicited.  I agree that transparent data will improve quality of players' performance.  What you have sought is the least one needs to improve management of long putts.  Like Ffudd says, on long putts, I too tend to walk-through the entire putt and gauge incremental inches; almost always, unsuccessfully!

  In fact, there is another aspect of putting that I wish to be improved.  I've felt that data computed via the "whole number" feet route is a potential harbinger of 2-putts, which we desist.  The marker on each putt should show exact distance to hole in ft along with the uphill/downhill inches data where applicable.  It is currently shown for putts up to 9.9 ft. How often have we seen a 13 ft putt, that travels 13 ft, ending up short of the hole by 0.2/0.3/0.5 or 0.7 ft?  It is because the putt isn't 13 ft, it is 13.63 or 13.84 ft!   It can be done because WGT has the requisite data - CTTH shots are measured, for instance, as 13.72 ft, and so on.  

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 11:36 PM

  First, it is not, in your example, 18" to 30", simply because when it drops below 2' it will immediately start to show in inches (23", 22" etc.).  So you can assume 2' is AT LEAST 24".  By the color of the grid, you can usually tell whether it trends up or downhill.  An example is the green at St A #11.  If you leave your tee shot short, you have a drastic uphill that will show as 2 feet.  Dragging the target towards down an obvious decline shows that it takes several yards for the elevation to drop to 23".  Thus, I usually add 6" and play it to 30".  So 2' can be anywhere from 24 to 30 inches.  At 31 inches it will show 3' and that can be anywhere from 30-42 inches.  Which can mean blasting a putt 4 yards past the hole, leaving it 4 yards short, or anything in between.  Pretty drastic difference. 

  I agree wholeheartedly that elevation on putts should ONLY be represented by inches.

• alosso 21,094 Posts

  Tue, Dec 11 2012 11:55 PM

  +1!

  JaLaBar:

  when it drops below 2' it will immediately start to show in inches (23", 22" etc.).

  This shows that it's not a question of display - a two digits inches representation is possible.

  I'd not mind it to switch from 95" inches to 8' though :)