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'Tough-It-Out II': The Trans-Atlantic Starter Clubs Uneven Open RETURNS!

Thu, Apr 18 2013 10:44 AM (742 replies)
  • overtheedge
    5,885 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 6:45 AM

    MBaggese:

     Damn the torpedos, where's me starter putter at!

    LOL!!!!! Now, this is what I call Mad Dog Spirit,,lol.

    **********************************************

    I would have to somewhat agree oneeye "starter equipment" can be extremely tough to play with but the name of this tourn surely isnt called, "pick your best dart guns",,lol. Its called - Tough-it- out II. HUGE PROPS to Corwyn for putting this together and to Cerino as well for assisting. WTG gents.

  • GLADSTONESCREWER
    749 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 1:20 PM

    I like the sound of this Tourny, its been years since i used the starter clubs & i really enjoyed the Uneven Lie tourny thats just been played on Wgt, i would like to play in this tourny please

    Gladstone

  • xXxjasonxXx
    688 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 3:17 PM

    I singed up,,,, just let me know what an who i got to contact an ill get ur done i have alot of free time on my hands so should be pretty easy on my part..... Thanks for the great turny ya set up an Good Luck to all that join.....

    Jason...

  • ThunderBoltz
    740 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 3:23 PM

    Sign me up!

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 3:57 PM

    Great to have more of you joining in the fun...

    Please don't forget: you need to sign up via this SIGN-UP FORM, so that I can make player pairings based on your availability.

    And do read through the 1st page introductory post. All the information for the tourney, dates, pairings, course setups etc are already/will be in those first posts, and they will be regularly updated.

    Thanks!

  • oneeyedjohn
    9,581 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 6:15 PM

    Hmmmm, no response to my earlier post. Nice

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Jan 7 2013 11:20 PM

    oneeyedjohn:

    Cerino and Corwyn,

    I want you to consider this seriously, because as we all know putting is the most vital part of the game: and I am not saying this from any other point of view than to preserve my putting  stroke. It has taken me 3 months or so to get it right with this Level 71 Nike putter and I do not want to mess it up by playing with a starter putter.

    I was at the last event of this kind using a 'beginner' putter and was doing it 'off ding style'. I was very very good at it, but now I have the Nike, my style has changed completely , in that I move the aim marker and judge the break, and pretty often ding the putt. I am without any false modesty, pretty damned good at this new method.

    As I said earlier the 'starter' putter is a different beast and I have never used it. A hack or amateur will have the advantage over me if we have to use starter putters, so your argument above  is not valid.

    I urge you to consider this seriously. You can only 1 putt every hole at best , so what is there to be gained by preventing players to use their normal putter.

    And one last point :- over the 4 different courses I imagine you will set 4 different green speeds, so there is enough of a challenge in that alone.

    Addressing the quick questions first:

    oneeyedjohn:
    over the 4 different courses I imagine you will set 4 different green speeds, so there is enough of a challenge in that alone.

    Green speeds, wind conditions, etc., were all set up before the tourney was posted, and can all be found in the first post of the thread. After complaints about Standard greens being in the mix last time, we now have Very Fast 3 times, and one Fast.

    oneeyedjohn:
    A hack or amateur will have the advantage over me if we have to use starter putters, so your argument above  is not valid.

    But, surely, don't you have the advantage of much more experience, and course knowledge, than a hack or amateur? How would you equalize for that?

    oneeyedjohn:
    I was at the last event of this kind using a 'beginner' putter and was doing it 'off ding style'.

    Hmmm... shouldn't you have been using the Starter putter then...

    --------

    But, to your main point:

    OeJ,

    Please accept my apologies for not responding to this question sooner.

    Cerino and I have been very preoccupied with the WGT Invitational tourney: having been such staunch advocates for Unevens for the past 4 months, we really wanted to make a respectable showing, and to offer tips and suggestions to those trying it out for the first time.

    For myself, it's the start of a new school term, and an incredibly busy time for me and my family (my wife's a teacher, and I'm in charge of our two young boys), so trying to fit everything in has been hard. I had hoped to just get the signup form out, and then let things run themselves until nearer to the start of the tourney. 

    My thinking on this tourney is as follows:

    1. The Starter Clubs and Balls tourney has a long, and important tradition, among the WGT community. Some of the biggest names in the WGT community have given their time to run these tourneys on at least a yearly basis. The tourney, in its pure form, meets a need that's often expressed in these forums: that of having a tournament where no single player has an advantage over any other based on their equipment (whether paid for in money, or earned credits, or even gifted). So, there's a tradition that this tourney certainly aims to be part of.

    2. It's one of the only entry-level tournaments available and appealing to the lower-tier player (although it's not easy to recruit them, suggestions welcome!). The forums, and country clubs, are full of tourneys where an Amateur, Pro or Tour Pro player knows s/he has no chance of competing. And the less said the better about the chances of an honest player being competitive in the lower-tier WGT tourneys…

    As one of those very same Pro players last summer, I jumped at the chance to take part in MioKontic's Starters tourney: although I lost first round, I made a friend, got invaluable playing tips, and it opened up my eyes to the broad, generous, and wonderful community of players that's here in the forums. I see the Starters Tournament (as a concept) as a 'bridge' into more enjoyment in the game for interested new players.

    It certainly proved to be that for me. Indeed, one of my most enjoyable rounds here on WGT, OeJ, is of marking for you in Tough-It-Out at RSG, where you shared on your knowledge of how to get longer drives, and where to place it off the tee, and recalled stories of playing the course in real life.

    So, the tourney also has the goal of attracting lower-tier players, and letting them play alongside 'the greats' in a format where they have something of a chance. Last time, Colm (cmdking) and myself (both Pro's) 'finished' in the top 5, alongside the Legends!

    3. And the last main goal of the Tourney is to introduce players to, and educate ourselves together on, Uneven Lies. Last time around, people said they'd learned a lot, and that it was easier to go through the tough challenges of these courses, knowing that others were suffering alongside!

    So, while the timing of this tourney makes it seem that Uneven Lies are the primary point of the tourney, and therefore, why wouldn't it be a problem to use your own 'fancy putter' once on the green… we've actually got some other goals in the mix too.


    Right now, I'm definitely leaning towards keeping this tournament 'pure' with a 'level playing field.' Same equipment for everyone, plain and simple. And, for better or worse, Starter clubs are the only equipment available to all that meets that criteria.

    We didn't respond quickly to this effect because we really wanted to hear everyone's compelling arguments; to be honest, we'd never considered the issue of an off-ding putting method, and how hard that might be with the Starter putter. Paul (alosso) also made the good point that with a starter ball, one's 'fancy putter' is going to react quite differently anyway.

    OeJ: it seems that your specific concern is that you don't want to lose the familiarity you've gained with your good putter. I don't know how to address the 'putting stroke' concern… There isn't really a good answer. Sorry! 

    I do have a flippant suggestion, though, as I don't want to lose you from the tourney if at all possible. You could compete just for the GIR or Closest to the Pin awards, and … if you really don't want to make any putts that might compromise your familiarity with your 'fancy Nike putter' then I'll give you a sleeve of balls if you complete all 4 rounds with 0 putts showing on your stats, and can still score bogey golf or better !!! (I just 4-chipped the first 2 holes to see how it works! Tip: it gets harder the closer you are to the hole.)

    …. made me wonder, has anyone done a tourney where you're not allowed to use a putter at all! Maybe that's the solution to this situation ;)

  • oneeyedjohn
    9,581 Posts
    Tue, Jan 8 2013 1:46 AM

     

    Jeeez Corwyn , I'd hate to sit over a pint in a pub and have an argument

    with you, I think I might lose.

    Your points are well made and I did not know

    there was a tradition involved, I just thought this

    was the second running of this tourney.

    You know very well I slipped up in Round 1 by having 

    a beginner wedge, and we restarted playing i think nearly 27

    holes all in all, but I never had a beginner putter, 

    I played the beginner putter in my normal game is all I was

    saying. I have never played the starter putter for real.

    It is good u mention our game at RSG in such kind words becuase

    had u not then I would most likely have withdrawn. Yes, it was a

    thoroughly enjoyable round at RSG and I am always willing to help

    others, but it appears my skills have been surpassed by many.

     

    The true point of my post was to throw in an argument for 

    dedicated putters and off - dinging which I was most skilled at, 

    and Cerino did ask for that.

    So I take my hat off to you and look forward to participating

    whatever the conditions and rules.

     

    Jeeez, Corwyn, I can handle a starter putter , LOL

     

    But I will try and perfect the chip putting and take a sleeve off ya.

    P.S. I just tried chipping on green and it still shows in stats as putts, what am I doing wrong ?

     

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Tue, Jan 8 2013 7:42 AM

    Hey, OeJ, I would love to share a pint with you anytime... and you would certainly hold your own in any argument!!! :)

    (Sorry to get a little carried away there... The points you made, and those of others, really gave me a chance to think more about why this kind of tourney is important to me. So thank you for that!)

    I do remember the beginner wedge thing... such a pity, cos you were playing so well at the time. But I got the benefit of playing more holes with you!

    And I very much doubt your skills have been surpassed by too many others. In fact, I'd love to see your real game with 'fancy clubs and putter' sometime. 

    I'm very glad that you're still looking forward to participating... My hat's off to you in turn!

    ... and I'd be delighted to cough up a sleeve to you if you wanna try that challenge! I found that the chip putting does show as a putt on the scorecard, but not on the Putting tab of the Stats (a strange WGT inconsistency).

    Warmly, Corwyn

  • ColumbusStorm
    3,417 Posts
    Tue, Jan 8 2013 5:36 PM

    Corwyn, thank you for the notification/invite. I would like to play again, but will probably only be available on weekends, which I indicated on your sign-up form.

    It was fun last time. And that experience helped me win some credits in the uneven lies tournaments sponsored by WGT.

    Learning to play with the starter stuff will be a challenge, but that is also why I like the uneven lies.

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