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Here we go again

• geraldlarousse 1,986 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 10:30 AM

  I will give my last opinion on this subject. Seems some players have been or subjected to being called a cheat on Wgtls. I see where that could be a serious problem for the competitions.

  But that being said, don't give anyone the right to download cheating software to see how it works. No person is above the law,,,no one! Anyone downloading cheating software for any reason needs to be banned from WGT,,,period. That is one way to help stop the problem. If WGT steeped up to the plate we would not have these problems we have now.

  It is WGT's  job to police the rules. Not any player that decides he or she is the judge. If cheating is going on,,,tough cookies. Until WGT does something about it play the game and leave the accusations out of it, because it is obvious to me that spotting one is a problem.

  So all decent players now will be subjected to someone's findings of their practice with a cheat? Come on man! :)

   

• russellfahey 4,286 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 10:30 AM

  rmchangin:

  russellfahey:

  alosso:

  russellfahey:

  then the argument of their need to hold the meter to make it smoother doesn't hold water to me,

  It has been a popular advice against a stuttering meter as long as I've been around and has been testified in this thread by Woodo and Courteney and RM and MB (citing Andyson) and YJ and alanti and myself, even JC (arguing against himself nicely on page 6), and Barry acknowledged it.

  What else do you need to understand that it's common practice to hold the backswing, making the proposed backswing time count a useless witchhunt?

  This is what i was talking about as regards ppl taking snippets of a post to make there point have some validity!!

  Now Alosso try reading the whole part of what i wrote again pls and then respond to the question i asked at the end of the statement.

  My point is this if they are taking on average 2-4 secs per drive but then taking 15 seconds on there approaches on sometimes a critical part of the game or mp,then the argument of their need to hold the meter to make it smoother doesn't hold water to me,as surely you need to hit the f/w on your drive to allow you to play a good approach shot,rather than being in the rough of say 30-40% 190yrds from pin or even worse if your playing Merion,don't you agree?

   The point i was trying to get across,was that it's all about looking for consistency in how a player plays/executes his shots as regards the whiteout method throughout the entiire round.This is where Jeffs post comes in,but like i have already mentioned and agreed with ppl that it is not a foolproof method!!!!

   I know it's also common practice to hold the backswing to make the meter smoother,i have no problem with that but if this is the case then why aren't they doing this on every shot if there meter is a problem?? i only become suspicious when the time gets nearer the 15 second mark as anything under 10 seconds i don't really worry about, as i see them as holding there meter due to the cpu issue.But these players are only taking 2-4 seconds to drive off the tee,can you not see why tis may arouse my suspicion??

   If that makes me smug and Elitest as RM likes to portray me as then so be it,i mean come on RM is so unreproachable i must surely be in the wrong to dare to have an opinion that is different to his.

   

  Russell

   

  having an opinion is one thing...but basically telling other player to play exactly like me or you might get called a cheater is something totally different....Still haven't heard one wgtls member or Mod say hey maybe that post went a little to far maybe we need to take it down before some unknown newbie reads it and goes out and starts accusing others of cheating....... ELITEST or THICK   you pick

   

  This is my last post on this thread as we are just going round in circles as Ruud has just mentioned.I am neither THICK OR ELITEST  as you put it.Jeff isn't telling anyone to play like he does,if you care to look at the posts in the thread on WGTLS no ppl haven't come out directly and said the post is wrong,but they have put their possible arguments against Jeffs post like what some ppl have said in this thread on WGT.This is called a civillised debate whereJeff has also taken on board other ppl's comments and to a certain extent agreed with them.

   Where as on this thread on WGT you seem to agree with ppl who side with you but as soon as someone from WGTLS disagrees with you,you revert to name calling with words such as SMUG,THICK,ELITEST,BUTTHOLE. Now as Ruud has already suggested your main reason for this thread was to get a response from WGTLS members and mods well done we took the bait,and looking at the last few pages of this thread ppl can now see your underlying reasons for starting this post in the 1st place.You could simply of laughed at the idiot who called you a cheat(which i know your not) and got on with just playing the game as you keep saying.

   Also what i have found is that many if not all of the cheating threads on WGT are NOT started by WGTLS members as many don't even come onto the main WGT forums.It is started by WGT members who don't even know about the WGTLS website.Mainly all of the posts in the WGTLS forum are debated and kept in house by it's members.i mean the utube cheat engine thread wasn't started by anyone on WGTLS or the the low scores in the Open must be cheats wasn't started by a WGTLS member or the last couple of ppl thrown off the WGTLS site for cheating which found it's way onto this site wasn't started by a member of the WGTLS site i could go on with loads more yet you felt the need to post what Jeff wrote on  WGTLS and bring it to the WGT site under the guise of oh dear a newbie might read this and accuse ppl of cheating.

  Well i suppose i'd better go rest my 1 remaining active brain cell being as i'm supposed to be thick.

  Russell

   

• russellfahey 4,286 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 10:37 AM

  alosso:

  russellfahey:

  My point is this if they are taking on average 2-4 secs per drive but then taking 15 seconds on there approaches on sometimes a critical part of the game or mp,then the argument of their need to hold the meter to make it smoother doesn't hold water to me,as surely you need to hit the f/w on your drive to allow you to play a good approach shot,rather than being in the rough of say 30-40% 190yrds from pin or even worse if your playing Merion,don't you agree?

   The point i was trying to get across,was that it's all about looking for consistency in how a player plays/executes his shots as regards the whiteout method throughout the entiire round.This is where Jeffs post comes in,but like i have already mentioned and agreed with ppl that it is not a foolproof method!!!!

   I know it's also common practice to hold the backswing to make the meter smoother,i have no problem with that but if this is the case then why aren't they doing this on every shot if there meter is a problem?? i only become suspicious when the time gets nearer the 15 second mark as anything under 10 seconds i don't really worry about, as i see them as holding there meter due to the cpu issue.But these players are only taking 2-4 seconds to drive off the tee,can you not see why tis may arouse my suspicion??

  Of course I can see certain suspicion, but nothing like the "there's no reason to do it" lecture in question.

  And still, the "suspicious" differences mentioned above may have enough legal reasons - too many to justify criticism IMHO.

  Speaking of myself, I take less swing time with drives than with approaches, because I usually smash them with 100% meter and allow a certain tolerance from the ding. 4-5 secs may be the norm if undisturbed. An approach needs more aiming (outside the backswing) but also thought on the power used and a smooth meter for a (coveted) ding - more caution to the CPU meter, more hold-up. Furtheron, the CPU escapades aren't steady, especially in MP games. Sometimes it takes a few backswings (interrupted) before I can swing, sometimes it calms down quickly. It's not unusual to use up the built-in threshold (15 secs?), making a new cycle necessary (1) or to start the downswing just before it.

  (1) The CPU meter will need the same time to smooth out than before.

  My position is unchanged: this backswing counting is useless witch hunting, creating more community disturbance than benefit in detecting cheats:

  Too many false positives.

  Thank you Alosso for your comments as like i said there are valid points to both sides of the argument and we managed to get our points across without bitching or name calling,which is how a debate is supposed to take place.

  RM please take note,no name calling here just valid points to the subject matter in question.

  Russell

   

• rmchangin 1,327 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 10:46 AM

  russellfahey:

  rmchangin:

  russellfahey:

  alosso:

  russellfahey:

  then the argument of their need to hold the meter to make it smoother doesn't hold water to me,

  It has been a popular advice against a stuttering meter as long as I've been around and has been testified in this thread by Woodo and Courteney and RM and MB (citing Andyson) and YJ and alanti and myself, even JC (arguing against himself nicely on page 6), and Barry acknowledged it.

  What else do you need to understand that it's common practice to hold the backswing, making the proposed backswing time count a useless witchhunt?

  This is what i was talking about as regards ppl taking snippets of a post to make there point have some validity!!

  Now Alosso try reading the whole part of what i wrote again pls and then respond to the question i asked at the end of the statement.

  My point is this if they are taking on average 2-4 secs per drive but then taking 15 seconds on there approaches on sometimes a critical part of the game or mp,then the argument of their need to hold the meter to make it smoother doesn't hold water to me,as surely you need to hit the f/w on your drive to allow you to play a good approach shot,rather than being in the rough of say 30-40% 190yrds from pin or even worse if your playing Merion,don't you agree?

   The point i was trying to get across,was that it's all about looking for consistency in how a player plays/executes his shots as regards the whiteout method throughout the entiire round.This is where Jeffs post comes in,but like i have already mentioned and agreed with ppl that it is not a foolproof method!!!!

   I know it's also common practice to hold the backswing to make the meter smoother,i have no problem with that but if this is the case then why aren't they doing this on every shot if there meter is a problem?? i only become suspicious when the time gets nearer the 15 second mark as anything under 10 seconds i don't really worry about, as i see them as holding there meter due to the cpu issue.But these players are only taking 2-4 seconds to drive off the tee,can you not see why tis may arouse my suspicion??

   If that makes me smug and Elitest as RM likes to portray me as then so be it,i mean come on RM is so unreproachable i must surely be in the wrong to dare to have an opinion that is different to his.

   

  Russell

   

  having an opinion is one thing...but basically telling other player to play exactly like me or you might get called a cheater is something totally different....Still haven't heard one wgtls member or Mod say hey maybe that post went a little to far maybe we need to take it down before some unknown newbie reads it and goes out and starts accusing others of cheating....... ELITEST or THICK   you pick

   

  This is my last post on this thread as we are just going round in circles as Ruud has just mentioned.I am neither THICK OR ELITEST  as you put it.Jeff isn't telling anyone to play like he does,if you care to look at the posts in the thread on WGTLS no ppl haven't come out directly and said the post is wrong,but they have put their possible arguments against Jeffs post like what some ppl have said in this thread on WGT.This is called a civillised debate whereJeff has also taken on board other ppl's comments and to a certain extent agreed with them.

   Where as on this thread on WGT you seem to agree with ppl who side with you but as soon as someone from WGTLS disagrees with you,you revert to name calling with words such as SMUG,THICK,ELITEST,BUTTHOLE. Now as Ruud has already suggested your main reason for this thread was to get a response from WGTLS members and mods well done we took the bait,and looking at the last few pages of this thread ppl can now see your underlying reasons for starting this post in the 1st place.You could simply of laughed at the idiot who called you a cheat(which i know your not) and got on with just playing the game as you keep saying.

   Also what i have found is that many if not all of the cheating threads on WGT are NOT started by WGTLS members as many don't even come onto the main WGT forums.It is started by WGT members who don't even know about the WGTLS website.Mainly all of the posts in the WGTLS forum are debated and kept in house by it's members.i mean the utube cheat engine thread wasn't started by anyone on WGTLS or the the low scores in the Open must be cheats wasn't started by a WGTLS member or the last couple of ppl thrown off the WGTLS site for cheating which found it's way onto this site wasn't started by a member of the WGTLS site i could go on with loads more yet you felt the need to post what Jeff wrote on  WGTLS and bring it to the WGT site under the guise of oh dear a newbie might read this and accuse ppl of cheating.

  Well i suppose i'd better go rest my 1 remaining active brain cell being as i'm supposed to be thick.

  Russell

   

  Oh so it was Bait and switch...to make the cheaters POST.........ROTFLMFAO.....

  Since were writting fiction here's my take...The Post was written by a cheater to stir everyone up...then when everyone is accusing each other of cheating the WGTLS CORE GROUP could start using there cheat programs again without being caught. thats my take

• 9,041 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 10:57 AM

  Jeez..no wonder the servers can't cope ..:)

  And you have to say as a dispassionate observer that G la R has made the most sense so far...

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 11:01 AM

  rmchangin:

  take off blinders, they have attack me also.....opposing opinion...READ JC Post then tell me your  opposing opinion.....

  I have no axe to grind with you, to be honest I haven't even read enough of your posts to even know what your gripe is and why you have it.

  I do know however that you appear to have an extreme level of bitterness towards a number of people on WGTLS. I recall another thread in previous weeks where you were bad mouthing the site and its moderators as I remember questioning why this was so? 

  In the end you are entitled to your opinion but I would suggest for your own good you get over just whatever it is that's eating away at you and causing your vitriol. This is after all supposed to be a game we all play to gain enjoyment from. It seems to be giving you more pain than pleasure and that is resulting in hostility in these forums. 

   

• rmchangin 1,327 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 11:30 AM

  tiffer67:

  rmchangin:

  take off blinders, they have attack me also.....opposing opinion...READ JC Post then tell me your  opposing opinion.....

  I have no axe to grind with you, to be honest I haven't even read enough of your posts to even know what your gripe is and why you have it.

  I do know however that you appear to have an extreme level of bitterness towards a number of people on WGTLS. I recall another thread in previous weeks where you were bad mouthing the site and its moderators as I remember questioning why this was so? 

  In the end you are entitled to your opinion but I would suggest for your own good you get over just whatever it is that's eating away at you and causing your vitriol. This is after all supposed to be a game we all play to gain enjoyment from. It seems to be giving you more pain than pleasure and that is resulting in hostility in these forums. 

   

  First Tiff i havent posted anything about WGTLS in months, Just maybe you should read the whole post before you pass judgement. I'm not trying to be a Smart as*, Tiff but you will see other Members attacked me at the begining of this post.....so yes i took a very defenceive posture sorry. But the members and Mod's total lack of concern of what message that Posts put out is Just Mind Blowning....not one said oh wow that could cause proplems if someone just sit down and quickly goes over it...and when brought to there attition about holding backswing got the same SMUG attitude response, it doesn't do anything, your  just covering up your cheating...Really ? If people dont want to be called SMUG , ELITEST, or THICK dont act that way.....i just call it how i see it...I did what I wanted to do tho...I got the INFO to all WGT members...so when someone accuse's them of cheating cause backswing time they know where this bull crap is coming from...It seems wgtls memebers and MODs having no problem calling people cheaters, Wait thats wrong they suggest your cheating ...

• rmchangin 1,327 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 11:40 AM

  and here what i'm talking about suggesting someone else is cheating

  Re: Recognizing Cheat Engine Users

  by geordieles » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:28 pm

  MBaggese wrote:As I understand this now...correct me if I'm wrong...the moment I take my back swing, the menu will grey out...if I were to hold the backswing until WGT "timed me out" at 15 seconds and released on it's own...I can still click to hit the ball..right there has to be near 17 seconds?

  
  This is correct, however have you tried holding the meter for 15 seconds,its seems to last forever and i certainly wouldn't want to be hung by my testiculars that long  
  A certain person has set up a forum on WGT without any knowledge at all of what Jeff wrote in his post or i wrote in February,he has just let that empty vessel that sits on his shoulders spew out a load of verbal anal waste, this is not about anyone taking more than 2 to 4 seconds to hit ball after menu greys out at all.Each set of clubs balls etc will be different for example the G20 may take an extra second or two, the main point to look for is consistency, every player has his own set up procedure before taking a shot and during a shot just like in the real game, so during the course of a game a player may take 10 seconds on his drive and maybe 12 on his approach as this is the money shot, so you play 6 holes and this player has averaged 10 seconds on drives and 12 on approaches alls good,however that person is now 1 down playing hole 7 and his drive took 22 seconds and approach took 24 seconds and its 1 foot off the pin,he wins the hole, ok we are now suspicious why has his routine changed? Hole 8 the same except drive took 10 seconds back to normal, oh but you just put your shot to 5 feet, his approach shot takes 24 seconds,see what jeff is saying in his post you are looking for consistency, every player has his own shot DNA if you like, routine, if he wavers from it when under pressure its suspicious to say the least.This is not about calling everyone who takes more than 2 to 4 seconds to hit from menu grey out, like numb nuts wrote on WGT forum.
  Another fact in life is cheaters will always defend any way of trying to suss them out vigorously and get as many others on their side as possible and try whatever means to ridicule any notions or ideas anyone has, like rmchangin is doing over on WGT by starting the thread.I wonder why he is so upset about it,the thread jeff started wasn't about him or anyone else yet he went off the rails and started on WGTLS again, strange he must be hiding something. 

  Les if you have someting to say,,,,Just it SAY  Here....Greg

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 11:45 AM

  Oy. From a moderator, no less.

• geordieles 541 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 12:02 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Oy. From a moderator, no less.

  Being a moderator doesn't mean i m not allowed an opinion i am also a member of the site and entitled to my say or as you guys say from across the pond i have a right to freedom of speech.I have also kept the thread in house at WGTLS where it should have stayed in the first place, as the originators post was for the benefit of WGTLS members who may or may not have been interested in its contents.RMCHANGIN brought it here for reasons only known to him.