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'Tough-It-Out III': The Trans-Atlantic Starter Clubs Uneven Open THIRD EDITION!

• Corwyn 2,410 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 7:39 AM

  Corwyn:

  Wesdogg75:

  Corwyn I believe with the card from last night I shot a 75

  Hi Wes,

  [...] Are you just submitting a score, in which case it would be the 75...

  ... or are you wanting your stats to be counted towards the special prize standings?

  If the latter, then according to our rules, I'd need to adjust the score, taking the average of the first four holes instead of their total first time around. (Which would mean a 77 instead!)

  Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume you want the 75 score, and no stats.

  Thanks, Corwyn

  ----------------------------------------

  bhoese:

  jlucky and I tried it tonight.  All was good (except our scores) thru 4, when James suffered the dreaded triple disco.  That was a while ago, and he's been gray since.  It's too late for me to restart a full round.

  

  James was +3.  His scorecard wasn't available to me after he discoed.

  ---------------------------------

  So, in light of the above two unfortunate disconnect issues, I wanted to let everyone know that CD and I are re-examining our disconnect rule, and revisiting what to do in the above examples.

  We've realized that it's unnecessarily unfair on the unlucky victim of somebody else's poor internet connection... and that, with the same player involved multiple times in the tourney, it's clear that the rule is flawed in this respect.

  Even as we've been addressing the issue, I've had private PM requests asking for leniency for the affected players (coming from third-parties).

  Some background: The rule was originally written with the expectation that there would likely only be a few holes left at the end to complete, not most of the round, and it assumed an unlucky circumstance that was more likely WGT's fault, than that of an individual's poor internet. Clearly we also need to protect the unfortunate playing partner if another player's connection is just not behaving as it needs to to support multiplayer games.

  Furthermore, the provision in the rule that averages out a score because of the possibility of just trying to get better stats now seems incomplete: if the second time around the scores for those holes are worse... then surely the stats would be worse too, and the player doesn't get any advantage. That aspect of the rule only makes sense if the second time around scores are better for those holes, so we'll be making that more explicit.

  Expect more news soon on our decisions... and please, do feel free to chime in if you have comments or suggestions for a policy that would be fair to all.

  Thanks, Corwyn

• MatildaIgaly 1,822 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 11:34 AM

  Got my round in with Hobbe for Olympic.

  First time we played and it was fun.

  He started great and me very poorly. But I had a great comeback last 9 while he lost some of his mojo :)

  But overall I think we did very well.

  Thanks for a fun round and see you for the last one.

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

• hobbe95 812 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 11:38 AM

  Yes it was fun i still need to practice more then 1 round befor each round lol.

  

  

  i promise ill play merion 2 times ;)

  cheers Micke

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 11:56 AM

  Corwyn:

  Corwyn:

  Wesdogg75:

  Corwyn I believe with the card from last night I shot a 75

  Hi Wes,

  [...] Are you just submitting a score, in which case it would be the 75...

  ... or are you wanting your stats to be counted towards the special prize standings?

  If the latter, then according to our rules, I'd need to adjust the score, taking the average of the first four holes instead of their total first time around. (Which would mean a 77 instead!)

  Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume you want the 75 score, and no stats.

  Thanks, Corwyn

  ----------------------------------------

  bhoese:

  jlucky and I tried it tonight.  All was good (except our scores) thru 4, when James suffered the dreaded triple disco.  That was a while ago, and he's been gray since.  It's too late for me to restart a full round.

  

  James was +3.  His scorecard wasn't available to me after he discoed.

  ---------------------------------

  So, in light of the above two unfortunate disconnect issues, I wanted to let everyone know that CD and I are re-examining our disconnect rule, and revisiting what to do in the above examples.

  We've realized that it's unnecessarily unfair on the unlucky victim of somebody else's poor internet connection... and that, with the same player involved multiple times in the tourney, it's clear that the rule is flawed in this respect.

  Even as we've been addressing the issue, I've had private PM requests asking for leniency for the affected players (coming from third-parties).

  Some background: The rule was originally written with the expectation that there would likely only be a few holes left at the end to complete, not most of the round, and it assumed an unlucky circumstance that was more likely WGT's fault, than that of an individual's poor internet. Clearly we also need to protect the unfortunate playing partner if another player's connection is just not behaving as it needs to to support multiplayer games.

  Furthermore, the provision in the rule that averages out a score because of the possibility of just trying to get better stats now seems incomplete: if the second time around the scores for those holes are worse... then surely the stats would be worse too, and the player doesn't get any advantage. That aspect of the rule only makes sense if the second time around scores are better for those holes, so we'll be making that more explicit.

  Expect more news soon on our decisions... and please, do feel free to chime in if you have comments or suggestions for a policy that would be fair to all.

  Thanks, Corwyn

   

  Corwyn and I have been going back and forth behind the scenes regarding the disco issue that's had an effect on several players. Our thinking was WGT would be at fault for discos and our regulation was written with that "intent in mind. We're going to be declaring an incident of Force Majeur. We have a situation that falls outside of our own written Tourney Regulations and we are forced to make a decision based on what's the fairest for all competitors.  In this case "We" declare the written disco regulation to be voided and Corwyn and I will be making our own decision based on  the premise that all decisions are  final by the Tournament organizers(Corwyn and I). We will also be amending the disco rule to further reflect a greater boundary of situations.

  *Ben is free to play his 3rd round on Olympic from the beginning and in it's entirety again (once) as his official tournament score to be entered into record with a marker or another competitor that hasn't yet played this third round. His stats from this round will be official and his score on the first 4 holes will not be averaged against his 4 holes previous.

  * James will have to play his third round on Olympic with a marker only. This will eliminate any issues with a disco by James having any effect on the other player. I'll try to mark for James again because we have once made it through 18 holes.

  * Wes will have officially recorded a second round(RSG) score of 75 and his stats will be used in the comparison of stats toward awarding special prizes. Due to disco issues, not of his own or of WGT's doing, the Tournament Organizers have made this decision.

   

   

  To some this may all seem trivial but as the Tournament Organizers and having accepted generous gifts from sponsors, that we are collecting stats as the basis for gifting,  we feel an obligation to get this right and ensure fairness to everyone. I'd also like to hear any comments or concerns if anyone has any to offer. Keep in mind we're just regular folk trying to run a Tourney for the fun and thrill of playing. What we may have overlooked is becoming obvious to us as we go along. A little positive re-enforcement would go a long way if anyone has some to share.

   

  ~CD~

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 12:30 PM

  CerinoDevoti:

  LOL. I'm the one that came up with the Olympic setup. I figure that's the point of no return so ramping up the putting and green holding difficulty was a must. Just like during the 2012 US Open, if you can get through the first 6 holes in par, you're well ahead of the field. In testing my best was +1 through 6 on Oly with our setup.

  For everyone, the setups and course order isn't random. Corwyn and I played some practice rounds with specific ideas in mind regarding the ability of the clubs and the course conditions.

  Oakmont: High wind that really is no more than about 19 MPH compared to what a high wind on the British courses could be. Easy holes so we all ease into the comp and the Very Fast Greens because they are very predictable for speed even downhill.

  RSG: We went long off the tee to counter the low wind which would be unusual in real life. The green speed is Fast to encourage pin seeking without the ball always rolling off the back of greens.

  Olympic: Short tees so we all reach fairways where the kick to the teeth really begins. The Moderate wind on parkland courses is never that high so that's the easiest part off the setup.  Then Tourney green speed so ball placement on approach and possibly having to play away from the hole as a strategy could come into play. I saw that happening during the US Open so I wanted to replicate it if we could. Lights out great putting is going to be a must using the broom stick.

  Merion: As a final all the elements come into play. Easy holes only because in testing we got most of the new pin placements by setting it on easy. White tees so it pushes the clubs to the max and makes more than a couple of par 4's take 3 shots to reach. The moderate wind again for parkland courses is the easiest factor. The Fast green speed to hold some of the slopiest greens in the Tourney and help with those long par 4 3rd shot approaches. It also forces us to putt hard and aggressive when our nerves are the most frayed. Playing scared to make a mistake with the final round setup will not work. You gotta go for it a bunch of times to get anything. We wanted it this way so cruising becomes losing.

  GL and have fun...

  ~CD~

  I wanted to bring this forward for anyone that hadn't read it. We're playing Olympic right now so I thought it important to be seen again. I've played my 3rd round and it was exactly as I wrote above. I played away from some pins and even purposely missed greens for the easier pitch or flop shot to get close for an easier par. I wasn't able to convert as many as I wanted but the chances were there for the taking.

  I've just now come off a practice round on Merion. I shot -6 with relative ease. I think I got 12 of 18 newer pins and that's what we wanted by picking "easy" for the pins. The green speed did need a big kick in the putter to get the ball to reach the holes. The 5th hole played pretty easy as well as the 6th with the slower green speed. I had no bogey's until I played 18. 13 mph headwind had me try something a little different. I hit a punched PW(78yd) to the red tee. At that point the ball is back on a tee so I hit driver to the fairway, 3wood onto the green and 2 putted for my only bogey. Overall, I think it's not hard enough. I'm sure most of the field after playing Olympic is going to enjoy the opportunity to be putting for birdies on a lot of holes.

  Good luck to all in their Olympic experience. Let's get some cards posted and keep the wheels turning.

  ~CD~

• BigInigoMontoya 208 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 12:58 PM

  oneeyedjohn:

  36 feet on the CTTH hole, could not have hit a more perfect shot, yet it still ran past.

  This is a very good score in my opinion, and I'd be quite surprised to see someone beat it. You've already done what I believe most of the field will fail to do, which is keep the ball on the green.  I must have hit this tee shot nearly a hundred times in my practice rounds just trying to keep one on the dance floor, and I'd be surprised if even 10% of those attempts have been successful.  Depending on the wind you are hitting either a 4i or 5i to the green -- both of which are low lofted line drive clubs with no reasonable chance to stop without an extreme rollout.  

  And even if you are lucky enough to put one on the green, the slope from behind the hole is so severe that a 2 putt from anything over 5 or 6 feet is a near herculean task. The only legitimate chance at a Par is to keep the ball below the hole and to the left of the pin, but with the clubs we are using here you just cant get it (and keep it) there.  Whether you miss short or are still able to hold the green, this hole absolutely plays as a Par 4 in my opinion.

• oneeyedjohn 9,581 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 1:35 PM

  Thanks BM.

  The sad thing is , this hole is where my putting fell apart, I missed a 5 footer for par, and it got even worse over the next few holes.

• Legaci 205 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 2:00 PM

  Looks like CD has already posted most of the screenshots for out round so I'll just add a couple of mine. Overall it was an extremely frustrating round for me, but feel like i would have faired much better with some practice. The 10th hole really derailed me and by the end i was just content breaking 80.

  That being said, looks like I might have a couple added bonuses. My shot on 13 finished 33 feet away, and looking through the  posts so far that might actually be enough (glad CD told me to save it). 

  Also, and i laughed out loud at this one, when i was screen shotting all the stats/scorecards I noticed my avg distance to the pin was 4.4 feet. Guess i can thank my only good shot (approach on 17) for that one!

  

  

  

• BigInigoMontoya 208 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 2:20 PM

  My final back 9 practice I drew a straight 9mph headwind on 13.  To my surprise after 4 or 5 mullies I was consistently holding the green Pin high to the left inside of 20 feet or so with a 4i with full backspin.  So I guess this hole will depend more on luck than skill really.  Lets hope I get a headwind when I play for real, otherwise it could be a round killer in a hurry.

• Corwyn 2,410 Posts

  Thu, Oct 3 2013 2:43 PM

  I agree Inigo. A straight or left-to-right headwind is the only hope, and even then it's a full bs 170 4-iron. Any other wind direction and the only way to get remotely close is to risk bouncing it on through the rough/right-side fairway, an extremely dangerous option that makes bogey or double almost certain if you don't pull it off just right.

  With the wrong wind, I almost wonder if the safest play is to try and find rough just left of the green (avoiding the bunkers) and hope to pitch/flop close enough to save par. (But look out for those overhanging branches near the tee!)

  I'll be fascinated to see if your prize-winner here is any closer than 20 feet.