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RG players and winds...what ya think????

Tue, Jan 20 2015 9:24 PM (102 replies)
  • geraldlarousse
    1,986 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 12:54 PM

    geraldlarousse:

     

    LOL

    If...????

    Hey.... WGT!!  Just think if you had one. What would you do?????  Scary huh??

    Already done told you before,, if you need programmers e-mail me. I can hook you up!!

    These people have one.        :)))

  • thebigeasy707
    5,885 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 5:05 PM

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 6:38 PM

    If this has been discussed already and I missed it then I apologize up front.

    Other than making what appears to be a lot of people happy, what other effects would having same winds have?  Anyone thought what the effect on scoring would be?

    Hypothesis:  Random winds increase the spread of scores.   Same winds would decrease the spread of scores.

    Take a RG with 2 par 5s as an example.  With random winds you could get 2 tail winds or 1 tail and 1 head, or 2 head winds add in the cross wind there's a total of 6 possibilities.  Chance for -3 or -4 on two tail wind par 5s are fairly good.  Not so on two head wind par 5s.  That will lead to variations in scores.  Same with par 3s.  or a long hard par 4. more variations in score.

    The whole point of same winds is to remove the advantage from the few who get 2 downwind par 5s.  The advantage is part of the variation in scoring above.

    In the case of same winds everyone gets just ONE of the 6 options.  Say all 50 get 1 head and 1 cross.  Where's the eagles now?

    Random wind gives that player with 2 eagles a good chance to win.  But if everyone got two tail wind par5s the there would be more players with 2 eagles.   Hence tighter scoring overall.

    Now, you might be thinking so what, that's what I want.

    Here's an example what that would do to payouts.

    This is for a 100cr RG.  The left hand column is what I saw on average in the score groupings when looking at 5 RG payouts  I called it typical.  The right column is an example of what I think could happen with same winds.  5 players might be tied for lowest score.  Versus 1 to 3 tied in my sample.  Without the variation in scoring the scores will get bunched up. 

    With scores more bunched up winnings will go down because you start bringing the lower paying places into the better score payouts.

    I'm thinking with same winds the size of a group with the same score will get larger.  And that in turn reduces the individual's payout.

    Still the top 30 sharing the pot. But they're all in the top 5 scores.

    Let the discussion begin!

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 6:49 PM

    andyson:
    Let the discussion begin!

     

    We've been discussing it;)

     

    It's pretty simple..let's take SA #17 in high winds as an example...

     

    You hit into a 30mph wind and I hit with a tail wind at 30 MPH...

     

    You're playing Driver, 3 wood, wedge (or seriously long putt...lol) and I'm playing driver short iron.

     

    So keeping the above in mind...

     

    Go back to SA #1...I'm hitting into 30 MPH, you are getting a tail wind at 30mph...we both are wedging to the green...

     

    Did those two winds workout/even out?

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 7:00 PM

    MBaggese:
    Did those two winds workout/even out?

    No, but you birdie 17, I get par or worse.  We both birdie #1.  You're -2, I'm -1 or Even if I bogie 17.  There's the spread.

    If we both get the same winds, chances are we both get the same scores.  (OK maybe not me but a good TL RG player)

    And that's my point  With the same winds a lot more players will get the same score.

  • geraldlarousse
    1,986 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 7:25 PM

    Andy i understand exactly what you are saying for sure.

    But my issue is and i'm sure you know already. I'm really not worried about how tight or how many ties there might be.

    I'm sure you are well aware that if everyone got the same winds there would be a bunch of tied scores and the payout would keep a lot of players out of getting any credits back.

    That right there is what i really could careless about.

    When i enter a tourney i am looking to win!!  I want same chance as everyone else.

    If i don't win, oo well tough cookies i was beat by the better player,,,, not the player who got the lucky wind set.

    Who would not want a equal chance to win a single round game when they enter??

    Who??

    And that is just it. I could careless about the spread of the credits. Nope i'm looking to take first place..... so could careless what everyone else gets.

    I'm sure a lot feel the same way.

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 7:59 PM

    geraldlarousse:
    'm sure you are well aware that if everyone got the same winds there would be a bunch of tied scores and the payout would keep a lot of players out of getting any credits back.

    That made me think what follows is less players will play RGS, they'll take longer to fill up, less tourneys overall.

    For every action, there is a reaction.  Some are good, some aren't.  Some reactions affect a few, some affect many.

    Look at the big picture.

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 7:59 PM

    andyson:
    And that's my point  With the same winds a lot more players will get the same score.

     

    Yes, to a degree...toss in a few zooming meters, /etc...miss hits, wrong club aim, etc...and putting for ure...all those things I just mentioned could be a 2-4 shot spread...

     

    If I say is correct...then let the best win on any given day..let the best face the same head/tail wind as I do, let the chips fall as they may.

     

    Further example would be the par 5 course...

     

    Ya...you'd get a spread for sure...but fair between player who are putting in credits for a chance to make some?

     

    I think not:)

     

  • geraldlarousse
    1,986 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 8:10 PM

    andyson:

    geraldlarousse:
    'm sure you are well aware that if everyone got the same winds there would be a bunch of tied scores and the payout would keep a lot of players out of getting any credits back.

    That made me think what follows is less players will play RGS, they'll take longer to fill up, less tourneys overall.

    For every action, there is a reaction.  Some are good, some aren't.  Some reactions affect a few, some affect many.

    Look at the big picture.

    That is just it Andy. I'm not worried about the big picture. Can not see anyone wanting anything different.

    The big picture for me... is when i enter a single play tourney. That is the picture.

    Its my money,, i want a fair shake.

    Like i said.... if i enter... i'm looking to win!

    Less players play.... more for me to win. Then have less players to beat.

    Sooo what you are saying then is WGT is making it unfair on purpose to get more players to play?? So lets make it unfair on purpose to rip off players and steal their money. Yeah that sounds like WGT.

    If it is... man o man ...lol. I might could see a slight problem with that.

    You feel me??   lol

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Nov 4 2013 8:17 PM

    I see more benefit for top players then. And no benefit, a negative actually, for the rest of the field. 

    An average player might be lucky and get the good winds and say triple his entry fee, but otherwise without the good wins he out of the money.

    One of those changes that is good for the few, not so good for the many.

    Another repercussion is if it causes less players in RGs, then less RGs, are less balls being bought?  It then hits WGTs bottom line.

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