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higher putting scales

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 5:50 PM

  nyctc7:

  I don't quite understand what I have bolded above. Lets say I have a 20' flat putt, so I multiply by .2 to compensate for a Very Fast green, i.e. treat it as a 16' putt.

  I think the reason that you might be having trouble with this is because for each green speed you should have a set of values for each move on each scale. For instance, on Tournament greens you might have something like this for the first move on each scale-8  12  15  18  22  43 (92Ghost with 6 scales.) That means the first move (and each succeeding move) on each scale will be that for Tournament speeds.

  You should have a separate set of values for those same moves on VF greens. Don't take your values for Tournament speeds and reduce them buy a certain factor-go out on those greens and figure out each move.

  What I have learned for myself is that the difference between VF and T speeds is the cancelling of a move. If a putt is 1 move on VF greens, T greens will be cancelling that move. Basically, the difference between the 2 speeds (VF/T) for me is the difference between a move and cancelling that move.

  I got my values by actually setting up practice rounds with the various green speeds and going through the scales. I don't pay attention to the different %s that players use to figure out strength, I go see for myself.  :-)

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 5:59 PM

  I believe it was nivlac who introduced the movement idea, and it worked well for him. I never had time for such brain activity. Read, and  hit...I'm a crummy putter...but fast

• nyctc7 160 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 10:04 PM

  YankeeJim, Thanx, I think I understand now. So far I really like the movement method. Do you "waggle" to dial in each interval or just the first one? Or the first and last? Right now I do it to each interval (that's within the distance I'm shooting for, obviously), but don't know if that's necessary.

  I may get around to mapping the speeds but for now I'm using the formula that I've seen in a few posts: after accounting for elevation, distance divided by 1.2 for VF, 1.3 for Tournament.  So for VF 20 foot flat putt it would be 16.66 not 16 as I wrote above.  (I'm sure you've seen the chart below). Why I was multiplying by .2, I don't know, I seem to have misunderstood. Is there anything really wrong with this method? I get it that uphill putts and putts within 10' may need a little extra oomph than the chart states because green speed is less of a factor in those cases.  

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/89159/565243.aspx#565243

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 10:16 PM

  nyctc7:

  Do you "waggle" to dial in each interval or just the first one?

  The whole reason for the waggling is to get the move exact. If you're going 2 moves you waggle the 2nd move, 3 moves the third, etc. Basically the last move.

  On that article, the avatar moves eliminate any kind of chart like that. That chart and the Putter Pal totally ignore how the putter moves and work strictly by watching the meter. It's a completely different way to calculate the putt and won't help you with avatar moves.

• nyctc7 160 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 10:28 PM

  Ok. Knowing just to waggle the last move is helpful and will save me a little time!

  Forget the chart, does the formula apply? (Sorry for all the questions.) 

  For example, I have a 15 ' flat putt on a VF green. I divide by 1.2 and get 12.5.

  On my putter's 15' meter, there are 2.5 moves, so the first two moves are 6' and the third is 3'.

  If I move the avatar two moves, that is 12', close enough for government work, or depending on the situation I could give a tiny bit of extra oomph or take a little off.

  Is that right or where am I going wrong?

   

   

   

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 10:52 PM

  nyctc7:

  Is that right or where am I going wrong?

  Doing that division is where you're going wrong. Forget the math. All of that has already been figured by you just knowing how many moves it would take to get 15 feet on a VF green. You already calibrated that by figuring out your putter's moves on Very Fast greens. 

  Here's how I look at that 15 foot putt. My Ghost, on VF greens, goes 7-8 feet on the 15 scale for 1 move. It goes 12-13 feet for one move on the 25 foot scale. It goes 13-14 for 1 move on the 50 foot scale and 18 on the 100 foot scale.

  Now, I can hit 15 feet 4 different ways. 2 moves + on the first scale, 1 strong move on the 2nd scale, 1 strong move on the 3rd scale or cancel the 1st move on the 4th scale. While none of the moves gives you exactly 15 feet, the situation of the putt determines which one you use. If the putt is flat, cancelling the 1st move on the 100 scale would get you about 16 feet which is a good speed to hit that flat putt. VF greens respond well to aggressive putts so I would probably use the 100 scale and cancel the first move.

  Take the same putt on Tournament speed greens. The 4 values are going to be different now. In my case, 8, 13, 15 and 18 are what I use for the moves on those 4 scales. Notice how little difference there is between the 2 green speeds and the values I use. That's what I have learned with my putter. A 15 foot putt on Tournament greens is 1 move on the 50 scale for me.

  Which scale you decide to use is up to you. I tend to use the higher scales for the shorter putts because of the short backswing and ease of dinging.

• nyctc7 160 Posts

  Sun, May 13 2012 11:11 PM

  Thanks for taking the time to answer, it is very much appreciated.  The thing is, I didn't figure out that the 3 moves on my 15' meter are 6-6-3 by experimenting on a green. I was just going by what 3 numbers, the first two being equal, the third being 1/2, add up to the number 15.  But that doesn't account for green speed hence the dividing by 1.2 thing. I see instead I will have to experiment with what the distances actually are.

  I was reading the putting tips thread about this, which talks about how if there are x moves on a certain scale, divide the moves by the length of the scale, for example 5 equal moves on a 30 scale means 5 moves of 6 feet. However the thread does say that is for standard greens with the starter putter. That's why I was doing the divide by 1.2 thing, which actually is working out not so bad. However, that still doesn't take into consideration the characteristics of the individual putter; I suppose some putters may hit a little longer, some a little shorter, for that one move. Am I getting closer? 

  Edited to add: When I wrote individual putter characteristics, I mean the different brands/models, not different putters of the same model.

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, May 14 2012 4:50 AM

  nyctc7:

  Am I getting closer? 

  LOL. You sure are. I don't think the putters hit the ball any differently than each other but they do forgive differently, depending on that spec. Don't forget, there are 7 different green speeds so unless you find a good factor on all of them that works for you, like that 1.2, your best bet is to just go see for yourself.

  Nivlac wrote that primer on putting 3 years ago before the higher quality putters were available. The premise remains the same but the values have changed. You'll be as good a putter as the effort you put into learning how yours works. It sounds like you're off to a good start.  :-)

• gsoup 2,929 Posts

  Mon, May 14 2012 7:48 AM

  i wiggle and waggle

  even a few curses

  still have the whooooooooooooas

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, May 14 2012 12:05 PM

  gsoup:

  i wiggle and waggle

  even a few curses

  still have the whooooooooooooas

  YOU, Brother Greg, sir, are a whole 'nother story. I still can't crack what ails you.

   :-D