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is there anyone left that don't quit

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Fri, Oct 8 2010 8:11 PM

  andyson:

  You should update your proposal to clarify these changes.

  I'm just here to discuss it andyson, I don't see a need to bring a proposal forward until WGT shows any interest in addressing the quitting/sandbagging issues.

  andyson:

  You're supposed to leave your buddies waiting while you are forced to complete the solo round? Too harsh removing the end game option.

  To take care of quitters, this is a condition I would happily live with, and as I stated in the last post, it would force people to pay much closer attention when setting a game up. I also believe that the number of scenarios like this are a much smaller %age of quitting as compared to score manipulators. The forum posts about it seem to support that. I'd much rather handle the larger problem, than not address it because of the small %'age of 'ooops' moments.

  andyson:

  In addition, your proposal does nothing to prevent quitting in multi-player practice rounds.

  That was by design, I don't think a forced finish on a non-ranked round is appropriate.

  andyson:

  Finally, your proposal and Faterson's for that matter do nothing to curtail posting posting artificially high scores by a sandbagger in a multi-player ranked round.

  True, but the fact that each and every score must be posted will make it easier to track this behavior, and to act upon it. Whereas allowing ranked rounds to be dropped without a score being posted allows score manipulation in both directions, with no chance of catching those who use these tactics.

  andyson:

  Ooops one other point, your proposal ends all unlimited tournaments as well, no?  I'd hate to see those disappear.

  if they quit, yes; as it should. In fact, that system is ALREADY in place.

  andyson:

  The solution to score/tier manipulation lies in how averages are computed and how promotions to the next tier are made.  I believe WGT is working in that direction.

  I don't agree with this. Letting players quit rounds and not post those scores allows the players to determine their tier progression. tier progression computations are definitely a part of this, but this part is being circumvented right now, through quitting. This is why ending quitting is the only real way to address it, I believe. 

  Thanks again for your thoughts, I appreciate the open and constructive dialog.

  VHL

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 5:55 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  andyson:

  Ooops one other point, your proposal ends all unlimited tournaments as well, no?  I'd hate to see those disappear.

  if they quit, yes; as it should. In fact, that system is ALREADY in place.

  I'm speaking of the unlimited play weekly, monthly WGT tournaments.  Like the weekly 9-hole and monthly 18-hole, unlimited play free tournaments.  The "Limbo. How low can you go?" tournaments where if you don't birdie the first few holes you quit and try again.  Maybe cease to exist was too strong of wording.  They will lose their unique attractiveness and interest will wane because your proposal forces players to complete every round, thus recording many more high scores instead of only the best scores.  Sandbaggers will love them because your proposal allows them to record multiple high scores "legitimately".  As they are now, they drive averages down.  Under your proposal the unlimited play tournaments force averages up.

   

• BriRock 148 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 6:05 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  It is my assertion that by removing the option to quit a round and not post the score, the quitters will go away. It is simple, if quitting isn't an option, they can't do it. once they realize that they HAVE to finish these rounds, they can no longer be used as practice rounds to manipulate their averages. Hence, they will stop trying. Sure some will still drop, but they get punished by HAVING to finish the round and post a score before they can play anything else.

   

  Had a quick minute this morning to read this, but haven't read any further so im not sure if i'm missing anything or double talking...

  I'm still of the idea that you will never be able to eliminate quitters, even by removing the "end round option".  All someone would have to do to quit is to close their browser window...But to be able to see who the quitters are would be most beneficial.  Not only could WGT implement  a reward system for players with the highest "reputation rating" (top 5% each month get credits or something like that) but they could also introduce a punishment system, for those players who still continue to wuit rounds due to their average. 

  Perhaps, not letting them into RG's or credit tourneys until their reputation becomes worthy of so.  I know that sounds a bit harsh, and people will say that they pay to play on this site and their freedoms shouldn't be limited to them, but i disagree with that theory.  Just because people may pay for enjoyment, their are still rules to follow.  For example if you go to a sporting event, you pay for your ticket and the right to enter the stadium.  But that doesn't mean you can walk around pouring beer on everyone that walks by you.  If you did this you would be surely thrown out, and possibly banned "for a period of time".  Playing in premium (credit) tournaments should be veiwed as a priviledge, not a right, especially if the majority of a players time spent on this site is to manipulate their average so they may have a better chance of winning said tournaments.

  So in essence the implementing of a "reputation system" could help (not solve) multiple problems...quitting, average manipulation, and or sandbagging, as well as the frustration people feel when their gamefreezes.

• isolater 426 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 6:57 AM

  andyson:

  However,danohi50 brought up a valid case when you inadvertently get into a ranked round because of user error.  You're supposed to leave your buddies waiting while you are forced to complete the solo round? Too harsh removing the end game option.

  In addition, your proposal does nothing to prevent quitting in multi-player practice rounds.  As stated, people do quit mp practice rounds for many reasons, score/average manipulation is not one of them I agree, and many, many mp practice rounds are played daily.  Any solution to quitting must address practice mp rounds

   

  a just for fun   side would eliminate  both these problems  1) no forcing to finish rounds 2) once the game is finished   it is like the game never took   place  other than those who  completed the round  getting  their level  points as they do now  under the current system 

   

  Finally, your proposal and Faterson's for that matter do nothing to curtail posting posting artificially high scores by a sandbagger in a multi-player ranked round. (A player could reach the last green, save & quit, then proceed to 8 putt the last green in private.)  Faterson's proposal is not intended to curtail score manipulation, but yours is.

  this will   curtail sandbagging in multiplayer ranked rounds   even if you save and quit      you will have to finish and  post that  score in ranked rounds  next time you  go   bacl into the game  mode screen as you   do now  you either   finish the round   before you  can  play another   or  you  end the round and take a  level point hit   to  not complete that round

   

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 9:02 AM

  andyson:

  I'm speaking of the unlimited play weekly, monthly WGT tournaments.  Like the weekly 9-hole and monthly 18-hole, unlimited play free tournaments.  The "Limbo. How low can you go?"

  I am speaking of the same andyson. I tested this a few weeks ago (I rarely play these, so getting locked out of them didn't bother me. I don't think it was a glitch as it is now   programmed to lock a player out of they use the quit/end round option. The next time I went to play it again, after quitting, it said that I was no longer able to play it as I quit the tournament. 

  I like it. While it is true that not everyone quits to protect their average or tier placement, leaving the option there does allow those who wish to manipulate it in this manner to do so. As it stands right now, they can't. Exactly how I believe it should be.  

  andyson:

  They will lose their unique attractiveness and interest will wane because your proposal forces players to complete every round, thus recording many more high scores instead of only the best scores.

  It would be nice to hear from WGT as to how the change has effected the popularity of these, to know for sure. I personally would inclined to play them MORE, knowing that it is a more true representation of someones ability, and knowing that they are posting all scores, not just the ones where they had a good start and chose not to quit.

  andyson:

  Under your proposal the unlimited play tournaments force averages up.

  I don't see this. Posting every score will give a long term overall ACCURATE average to base tiers off of -OR- force those players who manipulate scores to do it by artificially posting high scores, and not just simply dropping unwanted rounds. This score history wil make it easier to identify sandbaggers, finally.

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 9:07 AM

  BriRock:

  I'm still of the idea that you will never be able to eliminate quitters, even by removing the "end round option".  All someone would have to do to quit is to close their browser window...But to be able to see who the quitters are would be most beneficial.  Not only could WGT implement  a reward system for players with the highest "reputation rating" (top 5% each month get credits or something like that) but they could also introduce a punishment system, for those players who still continue to wuit rounds due to their average. 

  Yes BriRock, you can NEVER prevent someone from closing the window or quitting. Neither of these proposals can prevent then, in fact, nothing can. My proposal forces the player to continue that quit round when they next try to play (not for practice games: ranked or credit-wagered games only). I believe that when players realize they can't quit a game to prevent the score from counting for (or against) their average / tier ranking, they will stop trying.

  This still allows someone to remove themselves from a game when needed, without affecting the other players, AND will stop quitting all-together as related to score manipulation.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 10:00 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  am speaking of the same andyson. I tested this a few weeks ago (I rarely play these, so getting locked out of them didn't bother me. I don't think it was a glitch as it is now   programmed to lock a player out of they use the quit/end round option. The next time I went to play it again, after quitting, it said that I was no longer able to play it as I quit the tournament. 

  This isn't the same thing. Only the Single Play tournaments work that way. You can quit your butt off in the Unlimiteds and play them as many times as you like.

• BriRock 148 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 10:25 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  My proposal forces the player to continue that quit round when they next try to play (not for practice games: ranked or credit-wagered games only). I believe that when players realize they can't quit a game to prevent the score from counting for (or against) their average / tier ranking, they will stop trying.

   I can agree to something like that...but, if you force a player to complete a ranked round, he or she might be more apt to sandbag the rest of the round to inflate their average...perhaps? At least if someone quits the round, it won’t count (I never really understood why people wouldn’t put in bad rounds, especially with all the talk about how tough it is for legends, just like on a real course where players inflate, or omit, their scores to keep their handicap up for their benefit in match play events, but now I'm off topic so enough of that.) I could see players being frustrated with having no choice but to complete rounds, why not shoot a telephone number to ensure that your average never drops below the desired number, whatever that may be. I could be completely wrong, just trying to be objective.

  I don’t think WGT is able to completely eliminate quitting (or sandbagging for that matter), without taking too drastic of steps and possibly turning people off to the game...but to put something in place that benefits the majority of the player here that do not routinely quit / sandbag, would be advantageous to both WGT and us.

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 10:39 AM

  YankeeJim:

  You can quit your butt off in the Unlimiteds and play them as many times as you like

  I wasn't able to - the unlimited ones were locked out, too, if I chose to select 'quit/end round'. Coulda been a bug, dunno - only tested it one week.  

• isolater 426 Posts

  Sat, Oct 9 2010 10:49 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  I wasn't able to - the unlimited ones were locked out, too, if I chose to select 'quit/end round'. Coulda been a bug, dunno - only tested it one week

  i had the same prob with the week 39  unlimited    9  i got to  play a couple times  because i finished the round  next time i tried  i  used the quit end round  button  because i wasn't going to beat a previously  posted score i went to try  and play again  it said i have   finshed the tournament  and  posted a score