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uneven lies virtual open championship 2015

Thu, Jul 24 2014 8:09 AM (35 replies)
  • MartyFlanagan
    2,488 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 6:08 PM

    AgentBrown123:

    I can understand your point of view, but I don't think you've had this happen to you before on 17th st. andrews or else I think your opinion would be different... Of course it's going to come out lower when it's a downhill lie, but I know for a fact it's possible to get it up in the air enough to clear a bunker. I had a shot were I had a 29 flop from 15 feet 40 50 rough on st andrews 17... It didnt get an inch off the ground, it trickled into the middle of the bunker and then I was left with a red lie and then that one even though I was aimed WAY to the right shot straight to the left of the green. That's what I mean by unrealistic.... Of course it's going to and should come out lower with the downhillers. And also I agree with your point about bunkers, that's not the point I was trying to make though. Sometimes you're right in the middle of a bunker or towards the front or back and you have a very small chance of getting it up an down. That's the part I'm saying is unrealistic. If it's up against the lip, then heck ya you should have no chance.

     

    im my opinion i would stay away from using the flop shot as you dont want to come up short. i dont use it much and can still get the par or pitch/chip it into the hole. using the flop shot is tough from 40/50 rough, i think the 38 flop from 40/50 rough with a big upslope only goes 14yds.

     

  • MartyFlanagan
    2,488 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 6:10 PM

    fmagnets:

    I agree with much of what you say, but not this bit. This is as it should be. In real life it is luck as to what lie you get in a bunker, and if you end up on an impossible slope you may well have to play out sideways or backwards. The pros often have to do this when in the Road Hole bunker. It is a lottery, and it can be unfair, but that is golf.

    The downhill lies are fairly realistic in UEL, as you can't add much loft to a downhill lie shot in real life. It's just the sidehill lies and uphill lies that are not realistic, and more so with the shorter clubs. In real life you don't have to match your clubhead angle to the lie angle to play these shots, whereas WGT forces you to do this.

    I feel that if WGT added a bit to their UEL code that reduced the current UEL effect the more lofted your club is, only on uphill and sidehill lies, then a more realistic product would be achieved. 

    maybe if they improved the uneven lies code by 15 - 20% more people would play uneven lies

  • AgentBrown123
    907 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 6:19 PM

    MartyFlanagan:

    here is an example; kiawah 5th hole10yd from the front pin and nearly 2ft below green, i would pitch with my pitching wedge when the lies is 30/40 flashing red. if you have a big lip to go over you need to punch your shortest wedge. if you have a big upslope it can be good to use a club with less loft like a pw or 9iron.

    Maybe you had an instance where perhaps the lie wasn't as severe as the one I had. I hit a 29 flop shot with fullbackspin which has plenty of loft. It didn't go higher than an inch off the ground and rolled into the bunker. The point I'm making is that UEL needs some tuning.

    MartyFlanagan:

    if you are punching a club that you can only hit 50 yards (from the fairway) and your ball is plugged in the sand like a fried egg i cant see you hitting it over the green at 85% power in real life.

    Of course if it's plugged, then you need to. Again the point I was trying to make was that the uphill lies are way too extreme as they are. I definitely not the only one who feels this way.

    MartyFlanagan:

    i have not been in many bunkers lately but i usually can get up and down to get my par if i have an ok lie. its been a long time since i was in a bunker on one of the links courses, there are tough on wgt and really tough in real life if your at the back of the bunker on a down slope, i just play smart and go 10ft behind the pin or to the side if its close to a bunker. it gives you a great chance at birdy.

    Trust me, if you get some wind with uneven lies, you're bound to hit a bunker or two. Of course the bunkers are tough, and they should be on this. But they shouldn't be nearly impossible to get up in down with a slight cross slope and uphill. It's actually an easier shot when you have an upslope irl. That's all I was trying to get across.

    MartyFlanagan:

    usually when i miss i can get up and down for par, i have practiced a lot on my uneven lies short game, it doesnt have to be the main tournament on wgt, they could have it as a wgt nation tournament with a good prize fund and have it at the same time as the even one.

    I can get up and down too most of the time. But like I've already said, sometimes you get a lie were you either have no chance, or you just need plain luck to get it even close to the hole. I'm actually pretty decent at uneven lies, I'm not saying it's too hard. It's just very unrealistic on some lies.

     

  • AgentBrown123
    907 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 6:32 PM

    MartyFlanagan:

    im my opinion i would stay away from using the flop shot as you dont want to come up short. i dont use it much and can still get the par or pitch/chip it into the hole. using the flop shot is tough from 40/50 rough, i think the 38 flop from 40/50 rough with a big upslope only goes 14yds.

    Marty I appreciate the advice but I'm just telling you, no matter what club you used with this shot I'm talking about, it wouldn't have mattered. Maybe I'm not explaining it the best? I'm not sure. If you had the same shot and it reacted the way it did to you. You would understand what I'm trying to get at.

    As it stands, I get up and down at least 90 percent of the time on uneven lies. I'm just talking about a couple scenarios that are not realistic and definitely needs tuning. I'm not just bringing this up to whine. It's a REAL issue.

     

  • CerinoDevoti
    3,232 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 6:44 PM

    fmagnets:

    CerinoDevoti:

    Mags, did you play UEL when it first came out? The version we have now is exactly 50% less severe than the first version.

    Sounds horrendous!! I think I either hadn't joined, or was still learning the game when this first version was out there. It has always played similarly to now as far as my experience stretches back.

    I hope WGT keep working on it. Imagine sticking the current version on the Golf Channel for the Virtual Tour finale. The casual observer would think that some of the shots were totally idiotic - not a good advert for WGT. But a more realistic version for uphill and sidehill lies, especially short ones, would make a great showcase. 

    I found the first version fantastic. I practiced like crazy and after a while, it became normal. WGT changed it in the middle of one of Corwyn's TIO tourneys. I couldn't play the newer version(the currect one) worth a darn at first. With starter clubs it was a supreme test like nothing else here.

  • CerinoDevoti
    3,232 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 6:50 PM

    MartyFlanagan:

    fmagnets:

    I agree with much of what you say, but not this bit. This is as it should be. In real life it is luck as to what lie you get in a bunker, and if you end up on an impossible slope you may well have to play out sideways or backwards. The pros often have to do this when in the Road Hole bunker. It is a lottery, and it can be unfair, but that is golf.

    The downhill lies are fairly realistic in UEL, as you can't add much loft to a downhill lie shot in real life. It's just the sidehill lies and uphill lies that are not realistic, and more so with the shorter clubs. In real life you don't have to match your clubhead angle to the lie angle to play these shots, whereas WGT forces you to do this.

    I feel that if WGT added a bit to their UEL code that reduced the current UEL effect the more lofted your club is, only on uphill and sidehill lies, then a more realistic product would be achieved. 

    maybe if they improved the uneven lies code by 15 - 20% more people would play uneven lies

    I'm not so sure. The UEL takes a different mindset. IMO you have to have a much more realistic idea of what an acceptable result could be. Once we start getting pretty good on flat lies, our idea of an acceptable result becomes very slim. With the UEL the general membership isn't going to play it on a regular basis unless the scoring is the same as flat lies.

  • MartyFlanagan
    2,488 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 8:47 PM

    CerinoDevoti:

    MartyFlanagan:

    fmagnets:

    I agree with much of what you say, but not this bit. This is as it should be. In real life it is luck as to what lie you get in a bunker, and if you end up on an impossible slope you may well have to play out sideways or backwards. The pros often have to do this when in the Road Hole bunker. It is a lottery, and it can be unfair, but that is golf.

    The downhill lies are fairly realistic in UEL, as you can't add much loft to a downhill lie shot in real life. It's just the sidehill lies and uphill lies that are not realistic, and more so with the shorter clubs. In real life you don't have to match your clubhead angle to the lie angle to play these shots, whereas WGT forces you to do this.

    I feel that if WGT added a bit to their UEL code that reduced the current UEL effect the more lofted your club is, only on uphill and sidehill lies, then a more realistic product would be achieved. 

    maybe if they improved the uneven lies code by 15 - 20% more people would play uneven lies

     

    I'm not so sure. The UEL takes a different mindset. IMO you have to have a much more realistic idea of what an acceptable result could be. Once we start getting pretty good on flat lies, our idea of an acceptable result becomes very slim. With the UEL the general membership isn't going to play it on a regular basis unless the scoring is the same as flat lies.

    in uneven lies 15ft from the pin is a great result, i started off thinking get it on the green now i can attack certain pins, even had a couple of eagles on uneven lies from holing my approach shot.

  • bhoese
    679 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 10:14 PM

    CerinoDevoti:
    you have to have a much more realistic idea of what an acceptable result could be.

    That's a concise explanation of why I prefer the unevens game, even in its current flawed form.  

    However, I don't believe that it's a good argument for keeping UEL the way it is.  I believe a much higher portion of the general membership would play UEL if it were more intuitive.  The current UEL game confounds our expectations, at least in tougher lies in the short game, which is an experience that people simply don't like.  So they go back to the flats.

    If the result is reasonably close to what is expected, people are much more willing to work through the puzzle.  

    I think that an intuitive UEL combined with an across-the-board reduction in spin would yield a game that expands the definition of acceptable results, even beyond the limits of the current UEL, while retaining a broader appeal.

    I'd also throw in more random deviation from sand and heavier rough.  That's often part of the challenge of those shots in real golf - you can't know exactly how many of those shots will play.

    Those of us who enjoy the challenge of extremely difficult conditions will always have the cheap gear at our disposal.  Crazy green speeds pop up from time to time, and might eventually be a user option. Hurricane winds are a possibility, as well.  Heck, they might even have the ability to give us lunar gravity or Venusian atmospheric drag.

    There's a place for elements like that, but it is apart from general gameplay.  Uneven lies should be a step towards greater realism in the mainstream game, not a ghetto for a relative few nuts to inhabit.  

  • LOLserver
    3,522 Posts
    Mon, Jul 21 2014 11:28 PM

    CerinoDevoti:

    LOLserver:

    I'm a UEL fan indeed, I 'd love to see more UEL stuff in this game......but I do not believe WGT would make such UEL Open, unfortunately. I did ask myself the same question last year a couple of months before the Us Open and then, again before the latest Virtual Us Open.....the response from WGT was clear; no chance.

    I have been advocating the cause since the the latest UEL "fix" for a couple of years ago. Yes, we got the weekly uel tournaments & some other more interesting uel tournaments like the Nation Uneven Lies running at the moment.

    Who knows what plans WGT has for the uneven lies feature. It looks to me like UEL feature is something like the Nation project.........unfinished. And until finished, the projects will not take lots of attention from WGT.

    I bear with you Marty, we in the same boat m8....and of course I wish there were plans for a UEL Open in the future.

    Eric

    I don't think Marty is asking WGT to replace a flat lies Open with an UEL Open. I think he's just asking for a separate 2 round UEL Open as well as a flat lie Open on St A next year.

    Ugh?, I never said to replace the original Us Open with the UEL Us Open, it was the idea to have two separate tournaments running at the same time, even Icon commented on that but never got any further, unfortunately.

    CerinoDevoti:

    fmagnets:

    CerinoDevoti:

    Mags, did you play UEL when it first came out? The version we have now is exactly 50% less severe than the first version.

    Sounds horrendous!! I think I either hadn't joined, or was still learning the game when this first version was out there. It has always played similarly to now as far as my experience stretches back.

    I hope WGT keep working on it. Imagine sticking the current version on the Golf Channel for the Virtual Tour finale. The casual observer would think that some of the shots were totally idiotic - not a good advert for WGT. But a more realistic version for uphill and sidehill lies, especially short ones, would make a great showcase. 

    I found the first version fantastic. I practiced like crazy and after a while, it became normal. WGT changed it in the middle of one of Corwyn's TIO tourneys. I couldn't play the newer version(the currect one) worth a darn at first. With starter clubs it was a supreme test like nothing else here.

    I did the same & got hooked by the UEL feature ever since, extremely tough playing uel at that stage but damn great rewarding when a good shot or game result, but again, it was over the limit in my opinion.

    The fix came in 2012 and the uel were, lets say, less difficult to play but still very challenging.

    Hope for a new fix or simply for WGT to finish with the feature and hopefully more UEL events. As mentioned before, if the percentage of the uneven is reduced, much more people would be hooked to play UEL as we did.

    CerinoDevoti:
    you have to have a much more realistic idea of what an acceptable result could be.

    Totally agree and I even mentioned in the tutorial......like in reality, you need to accept to lose one shot and hit backwards if that is the only way to get out of the hazard (mainly with the red square). See what happen to some players in The Open last week when down hill lie in the bunker, they got greedy and hit the top of the bunker only to bak in the bunker for a new try.

    We can not declare our ball "unplayable" and drop somewhere else...but that would be so cool (ohhh, my fantasy).

    Eric

  • AgentBrown123
    907 Posts
    Tue, Jul 22 2014 10:05 AM

    LOLserver:

    Ugh?, I never said to replace the original Us Open with the UEL Us Open, it was the idea to have two separate tournaments running at the same time, even Icon commented on that but never got any further, unfortunately.

    I hope they never run two us opens at the same time personally. It would just take away from the main event. I'm pretty sure that's the reason they decided against it.

    Either you have even or uneven lies for the us open, it really doesn't make sense to me to have two separate.

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