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Bunker Shots ~ Flop? Pitch??

• OrinBM 40 Posts

  Fri, Oct 3 2014 10:31 PM

  I've been trying to stay out of the bunkers...but since I still get in them I thought I'd practice a bunch with mulligans and try to figure them out.

  I once read that you should always use Full for the swing, but it's hard when you have a short shot and a big lip.  Seems like the wedges aren't very effective below 30% and I thought the fuller swing of a flop or pitch might be better.  And I also thought that a flop was designed to loft it out of a hole, like a bunker with a big lip, right?

  So on my mulligan game I tried a bunch of shots from bunkers with the flop shot and the pitch shot.  These let me take a bigger swing which seemed to be a good thing.  They all worked really well and I was sold.  I probably tried about 20 or so shots total, from lies of about 20-40%.

  Now enter my next ranked game and I end up in a bunker...despite trying to play the hole long and clear it...but that's another story.  So I'm in this bunker, big lip, not too far to the pin, and a 40-50% lie.  Flop shot I think.  Well it flopped all right!  1 yard shot.  I should have learned my lesson and tried something else, but I thought, "It has to work, I used it over 20 times on practice shots!"  I tried to pitch it...same results.  Then I try full and I have to go really light because the pin is so close...and it doesn't make it out either.  Finally, after adding about 4 strokes to the hole, I just hit it 10 yards past the flag so that I knew it would get out.

  So...what gives?  How come flop and pitch worked so well for all my practice holes and then failed me so suddenly?  What are some strategies for low power shots with a full swing?  Any helpful discoveries out there?

  Thanks!

• keidan 311 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 11:18 AM

  Hi, 

  You don't mention specifically your distance to the pin, elevation, and how much green you had to work with in front of the flag and course/hole you were on.  With that info you will get more helpful suggestions.

  In general 40-50% lies are very unforgiving, so % power, applied spin and deviations from a "dinged" shot can produce wildly variable results.  Just a guess in your situation your flop might have required a setting of close to 2x distance at maybe neutral or back spin. You probably would also benefit from a good shorter range wedge (64 deg).  Another option is a punched shot which shortens distance some more and is less susceptible to deep lies.

  -Keith

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 12:15 PM

  I'm not addressing the one query but one Legend told me he never flops out of sand. The clubface dips a lot of sand and that makes the shot unpredictable. He says the aim is also affected more so.

  I usually hit my full shot, add +/- 11 more yards. (generally),  Cleves w/ 90% BS or I put the dot at the level of the sand.

  Picture the trajectory with the spin dot, more below and the ball goes up more but not as much out, but loft can make it stop better, if needed.

  A notebook helps to remember when a sand save will roll past the pin, or some holes it's common for the ball to stall short. (that hole on Pinehurst)

  Generally, the deeper the sand the less I will drop the spin dot into the sand. But I'm still learning. The elevation and how much you're choking the wedge is a big factor.

  With starters I would use the Lob wedge and add a nice % w/ approx 95% BS. It depends.

   

• OrinBM 40 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 12:34 PM

  Thanks for the response Keith,

  I guess my question has more to do with why a flop or pitch shot would work fine but then suddenly not work at all.  And by not work at all I don't mean it came up short of the pin, it hardly even moved the ball.  These shots where basically flubbed.  (I think that's the right terminology...)  I definitely use a method to figure out my meter based on the distance, plus the elevation, taking into account the lie, and then trying to predict the green roll.  I can't say I had an exact method although I've read about some that I am trying now.  Either way, I did have a method and it was just odd to me that the same method could produce acceptable to good results for many shots and then suddenly produce no result. 

  I guess I should have kept more exact information on the circumstances of the shot, I'll do that next time.

  Last, I have a 60 deg wedge that I use, is a 64 going to make that much difference?

  Thanks.

• alosso 21,088 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 1:21 PM

  OrinBM:

  Last, I have a 60 deg wedge that I use, is a 64 going to make that much difference?

  Can't tell about the flop because I never got it going from bunkers (*), but I can tell about the influence of higher power %% of a shorter club against lower %% of a longer one.

  This will make the difference between a 60° and a 64° club - mind the nominal yardage.

  (*) usually full or punch shots, in a few easy occasions, a pitch.

• Mushy01 2,567 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 1:56 PM

  A simple formula I been using of late is full backspin = 3 yds added to the overall distance, then add 1 yd per ft up if its say over 6 ft into a bunker but only add 2 yds for full backspin if its under the lip or close, if total adds upto over 25 yds use that , if lower use 21 yds irrespective.

  works ok for me with ATV 64 degree wedge.

  Something to maybe start from for you.

  e.g 1 

  back of bunker 25 yds from pin, pin 3 ft up

  3 yds for full backspin added to 25yds distance + 3yds for height = 31 yds on meter

  e.g 2

  2 ft from lip of bunker 11 yds from pin, pin 3 ft up

  2 yds for full backspin added to 11 yds distance + 3yds for height = 16yds BUT play 21 yds on meter

• alosso 21,088 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 2:21 PM

  Mushy01:

  A simple formula I been using of late is full backspin = 3 yds added to the overall distance, then add 1 yd per ft up if its say over 6 ft into a bunker but only add 2 yds for full backspin if its under the lip or close, if total adds upto over 25 yds use that , if lower use 21 yds irrespective.

  works ok for me with ATV 64 degree wedge.

  Which bunker %%?

  Which shot type? Full, punch, flop?

• Mushy01 2,567 Posts

  Sat, Oct 4 2014 2:25 PM

  alosso:

   

  Which bunker %%?

  Which shot type? Full, punch, flop?

  sorry alosso, Full shot and all scenarios , tried the flop just nothing seems consistant.

• 2funtoyz 66 Posts

  Mon, Oct 6 2014 8:32 AM

  I found these percentages for use in a bunker, and usually work very well.

  15-20% sand figure 1.05 percent, and most of the time, around the green a flop will work.

  30-40% sand figure 1.15 percent, and use full on the scale.

  40-50% sand figure 1.25 percent, and use full on the scale.

  Hope it helps

   

• GRAntmoles 402 Posts

  Tue, Jul 26 2016 5:37 AM

  I have found after many many many shots from the bunkers on all courses 

  "Nobody knows"

  Is all pot luck if you ask me.

  I love this game but some things just aren't right about it.

  Bunkers are one of them.

  I have and I'm sure everyone has a "Sand Wedge" in their real bag at home.

   

  Just an opinion from an average player