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Equipment availability should be based on tier, not level.

• lee22sharon 1,419 Posts

  Thu, Feb 12 2015 9:48 PM

  In reply:  As I have stated many times in the past when the equipment issue comes up, that it is self serving to the better players already established, to limit falsely those new players just joining from being as competitive as their abilities allow, and  not to be subject to artbitary ceilings simply based on years as a member, and status in the peerage.

  In my remembrance of my many previous entries on this subject I have always made the remark as to ability to afford the equipment.

  In many instances, so I am told, the present system works best when there are credits at stake.  Since joining my geographic area did not allow me to wager credits on the outcome of a round of golf here I am not equipped to argue the pro's and cons of the equipment availability for anyone risking credits on the outcome of a round of golf.

  I am also aware that those who "re-start' frequently will subsidize their new player identity so that they may be better able to get the equipment they need to be superior in their peerage group.  This alone is a whole new area that needs a serious overhaul.

  As to why I do not have better equipment, it is very simple $$$.  I will join in the free rental club days as a moth to a flame.  I have found better clubs, the bertha driver and 3 wood, the level 97 irons, but have yet to find a better putter for me.  I also have a $ limit on what I spend for better balls per month so as i have said buy what you can afford, and then get as good as you can with what you have.

   i invite further comment on this subject as it is one of my biggest concerns as a member of WGT.  my nickle.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Feb 12 2015 10:10 PM

  I wonder how many "lower" level 77 through 92 ish Legends would still be complaining if the deal was OK have the L97s, but you are also a TL, and go up against the big guns in RGs

  Legend is well catered for (if you can afford it / time to watch vids etc if available).  Hitting TL early it's a shocker if you happen to be genuine, and want to go up against the  best.  As I keeping saying telling those people how good there equipment is whilst using something better yourself is not good enough.  

  A little bit of effort with that new tier would solve loads (at the usual price). I can't see one downside to it from any angle apart from resource time WGTs end, and there layeth the issue in a land that has no credible competition.  Meantime we have CC clashes chasing daftness to a new high,  genuine people leaving, TLs that could not break par grom real tees at even Merion B9 so never card there as too scary, averages / stats that are a mess and then the bugs (:

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Thu, Feb 12 2015 11:49 PM

  lee22sharon:

  that it is self serving to the better players already established, to limit falsely those new players just joining from being as competitive as their abilities allow, and  not to be subject to artbitary ceilings simply based on years as a member, and status in the peerage.

   i invite further comment on this subject as it is one of my biggest concerns as a member of WGT.  my nickle.

  In short, "everyone" is "entitled" to have what everyone else has, it is just not right to make them earn it the way we used to, they should be equal to those who worked their a$$es off just because....

   

  Phheeeewwww, I feel sorry for my grandkids...

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 12:45 AM

  I should have added (as do usually) the pro shop opens only to TLs after some testing (pragmatic approach).  L95 *even 96) and enough stripes to say you can play all the courses from real tees in a v reasonable way (NOTE not elite way), and for those TLs things open.  This way those TLs that want to play RGs etc know they are equal and, WGT still get the chasel.  

  The new tier (as part of it) means red tee people can chase that low target as unaffected by this, baggers can bag, multis can restart but for once genuine people get some reward too. Several months slogging / learning at TL I think people can see (take), but years they will not of their goal is competing against the best.

  EDIT:

  Example:  TL Player in CC I am in got to L94, and enjoyed RGs.  I think he was already saturated, but would been close if not.  WGT bring out new L100 irons, and he says rollox that's the final straw.  

  The game loses him as does the CC lose a great guy encouraging others.  WGT may say they don't care about that knock on effect, and so maybe will never change.  If they do care that player would still be here if WGT had said right now go get a 59 average from X amount (say 100 RRs) real tee / real conditions / all the courses and single play comps.............That's the area they need to address IMO.

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 5:21 AM

  fatdan:

  In short, "everyone" is "entitled" to have what everyone else has, it is just not right to make them earn it the way we used to, they should be equal to those who worked their a$es off just because....

   

  0h my yes ! The "New" Kenyon Way, DAMMIT....after all, everyone IS entitled, and it's a brand new world, yes ? Right ? The only thing is, everyone wants what everyone else wants until everone has it then nobody wants it....A new world where there is NOTHING new under the sun........

  I don't have a child, but I worry about my grandchildren

• lee22sharon 1,419 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 11:24 AM

  fatdan:

  lee22sharon:

  that it is self serving to the better players already established, to limit falsely those new players just joining from being as competitive as their abilities allow, and  not to be subject to artbitary ceilings simply based on years as a member, and status in the peerage.

   i invite further comment on this subject as it is one of my biggest concerns as a member of WGT.  my nickle.

  In short, "everyone" is "entitled" to have what everyone else has, it is just not right to make them earn it the way we used to, they should be equal to those who worked their a$es off just because....

   

  Phheeeewwww, I feel sorry for my grandkids...

   

  In reply:  In the common term of "worked my @ss off for what I/we have" I'm not sure that it would apply to a self imposed leisure video sport.  In the time it takes a relatively inexperienced player to "learn" his brand new, best he can afford, clubs and balls, you don't think that player has "earned" them and the right to use them?  I do whole heartedly.

  I also do not see in your posts that there is any differences between a casual leisure player - for no credits, and those who do wager credits on the outcome of a round/tournament.  I have read on these pages reams of complaints of cheats, mis-use of equipment, mis-understanding the results, and you can name everything else.  

  Playing for credits in any form is certainly a different game than that which the majority of new players engage in and should be held to a less rigid standard.  My nickle.

   

• lee22sharon 1,419 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 11:31 AM

  fatdan:

  lee22sharon:

  that it is self serving to the better players already established, to limit falsely those new players just joining from being as competitive as their abilities allow, and  not to be subject to artbitary ceilings simply based on years as a member, and status in the peerage.

   i invite further comment on this subject as it is one of my biggest concerns as a member of WGT.  my nickle.

  In short, "everyone" is "entitled" to have what everyone else has, it is just not right to make them earn it the way we used to, they should be equal to those who worked their a$es off just because....

   

  Phheeeewwww, I feel sorry for my grandkids...

   

  In reply:  No where in any written response, or self initiated writings have i ever used "entitled" to speak to the issue of all equipment being available to the WGT membership.  Your nickle!

• hpurey 11,505 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 1:10 PM

  Imagine the complaints if clubs were released by tier.   Let's say all the gear over L93 would be considered Tour Legend equipment.  Things would be worse, since the complaint of not being able to compete with what they have now, would turn to I can't promote because the equipment is tier based.  ;-)

   

   

• DrSlick 142 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 1:32 PM

  hpurey:

   Things would be worse, since the complaint of not being able to compete 

   

  HP/all - everyone automatically defaults to "can't compete" as the gripe from players wanting better clubs and it gets frustrating to hear. When the R11s were all there was for great clubs at L90, that was a reachable goal for a legend and TL. Even for a L85 legend L90 was not a huge leap in XPs to at least be able to get the R11s and see what you could do with them. 

  I can compete with R11s, I win a lot of MPs with my R11s, I can score with them as well. And, there are a lot better players than I with the R11s. But, as a competitive person, I would like to at least have the option of "I wonder what I could do with those L97s or L100s?" 

  The leap in XP from L85-L90 when the R11s were the only game in town is NO WHERE near the leap from a current L90 player to get to L97 - almost months to years comparison if you don't play a daily and a lot of rounds. 

  FFS, most of us are saying WGT likes to promote itself as a real world experience, but charging entry fees for RGs and such and not allowing players playing in the same tier is solely a $$$ decision which has been pointed out many times. 

  I guess what I am saying and a few have said you "have to earn your stripes here," is that many of you TLs and long time legends were already at L94/95/96 or higher before these L97s and L100s came out. The attainment for the best clubs was only 2-3 levels away(still quite a feat) and not 7-9 levels (an eternity for those of us that play maybe 5-10 rounds per week to get on equal footing. 

  It is Friday, time for a beer I think. 

   

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Fri, Feb 13 2015 1:43 PM

  My nickel: Wgt has been around for 7 yrs + or -, they grew from a few hundred registered to over 11 million.

  They have a business plan that was good enough to get them $20 million in funding from venture capitalist, new advertisers, new investors, new affiliations with Facebook, Calloway, USGA, and Golf Channel, and I don't see them changing their plan because xyz can't drive it as far as abc....sorta like "leaving well enough alone"....not to mention that every level has more, and better equipment than we did already.

  What I find funny is all this fuss over 2 drivers, 2 putters, and 2 sets of irons....