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#17 Kiawah

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Thu, Jan 5 2012 5:23 AM (19 replies)
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  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 6:40 AM

    SgtDoodles:

     .......The drop must be in line with where you teed off.............

    not quite correct

     

     

    so...

    your being dropped on the sandy path near the yellow dot, correct?

     

    i tried a few practice shots but could not get the right hazard cut point - i always got droppped on the grass.

     

    the next part is for jake assuming that the above drop point is the one in question

     

    a look at the kiawah resort website shows that for the ocean course:

    1. USGA rules govern all play except where local rules prevail.
    2. Lateral Hazards are defined with red stakes and lines.
    3. Water Hazards are defined with yellow stakes and lines.
    4. Marked sprinkler heads are measured to the front, middle and back of greens.
    5. Proper attire required at all times.
    6. Fill divots with sand, repair ball marks & after raking bunkers leave rakes in the bunker.
    7. Cart paths are not an artificial surface, therefore no relief.
    8. All sand areas on the golf course are not hazards and therefore are played as through the green.

    further to No8 see http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=45553.0

     

    wgt is the tournament committee.

     

    there are no lateral water hazards defined by wgt (at least, i haven't found any)

    you entered a water hazard therefore rule 26 1 c is never used. what is used is a "butchered" rule 26 1 b - drop behind the hazard (it doesn't matter from which side you crossed the hazard margin), on a line keeping the point at which you crossed between you and the pin.

    here's the butchered bit. normally you should be allowed to go back on a line as far as you wish, but with no user interaction, the software drops at the nearest point to the hazard.

     

    sometimes the software chooses to use rule 26 1 a - drop at the nearest point from where the original shot was played.

    i don't know what order, if any, the software uses, and unless wgt reply then we won't know, not that it really matters, as with above, if there is no user interaction we don't get a choice.

    so it's a case of just suck on it til wgt try to implement user interaction.

     

     

    and that is the main point

    user interaction

    to properly implement the rules of golf would require user interaction. it will never be done. or maybe you want the opportunity for 5 hour rounds of golf on wgt.

     

    what there should be, is a number of drop zones connected to each water hazard. the ball would be dropped under penalty in the nearest drop zone to the point of crossing the margin. 

    if the tournament rules stated that drop zone must be used then all argument of rule 26 disappear

     

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 8:28 AM

    Masters and TM's are indeed always dropped in the grass ,  legends are dropped on the sandy path in a 30/40% mind you. The tee boxes are positioned at different approach angles.

                                                                                                                              Ace

  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 8:35 AM

     

    i tried practice rounds from the back tees, even tried aiming way right, over that path. still got dropped on the grass

     

     

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 10:07 AM

    Hmm , well , I may be wrong , but with that being so , it leads me to believe that the drop areas are defaulting to tier specific areas , because like Jake , I have always been dropped on the path in a 30/40% with a terrible angle. Sounds like the zone may be tied to the tier. Interesting.

                                                                                                                         Ace

  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 12:09 PM

    i now have the drop in question

    in video 1 show the tee shot crossing the hazard margin near the path

    replay.aspx?ID=449363a9 dcf2 407b a960 9fc70140dde8

    video 2 shows the place of drop on the sandy path

    replay.aspx?ID=2b0eebf3 23bb 4c07 9f8b 9fc701413e60

    no bug.

    not against the rules, in fact using rule 26 1 b, this is the only place that the ball can be dropped and still have a shot.

    drop zones would be a better implementation

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 12:56 PM

    I didn't think it was a bug at all...but I will have to agree with Jake in that a "drop" should never occur "into" another hazard. A player faced with a drop , an unplayable , or requesting relief should never be forced to drop into a hazard. So , I agree Oily , that a drop zone does need to be implemented here. WGT has obviously done the best they could with the situation "for the moment."  If it were a 10/15% from this location , I probably wouldn't have an issue at all ,  a 30/40% is a bit punishing for a 3'rd back across the pond.

                                                                                                                         Ace

     

    P.S.         Nice work  btw  oily.

  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 1:40 PM

    the sandy path is not a hazard, therefore jake was never correct.

    from the kiawah website there are no bunkers that are hazards on the ocean course. all sand areas are played as through the green, so grounding the club is not a penalty.

    but also, it is the tournament committee that defines the margins of hazards for it's competitions, so effectively wgt can do whatever it wants 

     

    an aside

    i dropped on that path a few times and always got a 15/20 lie, is that tier specific maybe?

  • TheAceFactor
    2,147 Posts
    Wed, Dec 28 2011 2:31 PM

    oilyrag:
    i dropped on that path a few times and always got a 15/20 lie, is that tier specific maybe?
    Hmmm ,  again ,  interesting.

                                                                                                                             Ace

  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Wed, Jan 4 2012 9:24 PM

    Oily,

    You are correct in your interpretation.  I have actually played the Ocean Course twice IRL and never knew the bunkers were not a hazard.  God knows I saw a lot of them.  So technically they are not in violation of any rules by dropping us in the sand, just a violation of common sense.

    As for the drop being tied to tier, I believe that to be the case.  I never saw the sand drop until playing from the back tees.  Funny part is I have received the grass drop 3 or 4 times from the back tees, while getting about 30 drops in the sand.  The technology is there for WGT to fix it so why don't they?

    Drop zones on long par 3s with water certainly seems like the best solution.  Would also like to see water hazards at least played as yellow with only option to go 2 clubs from point of entry.  I understand how difficult it would be to implement other legal drops but 2 clubs seems workable.  Stroke and distance after a meter spike can be quite maddening.

  • oilyrag
    875 Posts
    Thu, Jan 5 2012 5:23 AM

    jakestanfill7:

     I have actually played the Ocean Course twice IRL

     

    lucky you :)

    i quite fancy a trip there myself... then maybe down to hilton head

    ahhhhhhh...... one day :)

     

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