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Saturation

• Criscraft56 9 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 1:20 AM

  Whats the harm in being saturated (avg. dosen`t go up but can go down) ? I would love to shoot in the high 90s with no fear of my avg. going up . Thanks. Rico.

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 9:39 AM

  The harm comes in that "average" then no longer reflects the actual ability of the player. For example, a player who consistently shoots 65s will be sporting the same average as a player who rarely shoots 65 but has played a long time. A 65 from the front tee and no wind on a par 70 course counts exactly the same as a 65 from the back tees in high winds at a par 72 course.

  It penalizes honest players who aren't that good but would like to participate in fun country club tourneys from the front tees and low winds. They run the risk of leveling up when they really shouldn't. The flip side of it is that this game is now famous for having "paper" Legends who got there from the red tees with low winds. Many of those then become multi-accounters instead of playing from way back there on greens they can't handle.

  The game really needs an honest handicapping system.

• mathia14 1,271 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 9:46 AM

  srellim234:

  The harm comes in that "average" then no longer reflects the actual ability of the player. For example, a player who consistently shoots 65s will be sporting the same average as a player who rarely shoots 65 but has played a long time. A 65 from the front tee and no wind on a par 70 course counts exactly the same as a 65 from the back tees in high winds at a par 72 course.

  It penalizes honest players who aren't that good but would like to participate in fun country club tourneys from the front tees and low winds. They run the risk of leveling up when they really shouldn't. The flip side of it is that this game is now famous for having "paper" Legends who got there from the red tees with low winds. Many of those then become multi-accounters instead of playing from way back there on greens they can't handle.

  The game really needs an honest handicapping system.

  bump

• alosso 21,069 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 1:24 PM

  IMHO there's no harm in saturation - it comes like rain in winter, after 10 rated scores for Amateurs, 20 for Pros and so forth.

  There's also no harm in shooting high scores because they will disappear from the average soon after saturation, becoming replaced by better scores. They will also not hinder your progression to the next tier because of the nature of this special average.

  Other than the previous writers I don't think that we need a proper handicap system. The WGT average is a fair way to determine who should tier up, with the side effect that it's good for the company.

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 3:46 PM

  Compared to a real life handicapping system you will find that it is unfair. By taking only the best scores you've ever posted, you get an incorrect value regarding who should move up.If a person shoots a "progression qualifying" score only 4 or 5 out of 100 games they are not ready to tier up. This game doesn't disregard scores that were shot years ago in it's calculations despite the fact that they are not an indicator of how well or poorly that person can currently play.

  You're right that high scores don't hurt. Yes, they are replaced by better scores after saturation. Those higher scores may well be an indicator that a player is not ready to tier up, though. There should be a point where older scores ,maybe 2 or 3 years old, are dropped from average calculations.

  Country club tournaments from the front tees shouldn't calculate into the average for Master Tier players on up as well.

• mantis0014 8,946 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 8:49 PM

  Who invented the word 'Saturation'.  It just seems something really bad   lol

• alosso 21,069 Posts

  Fri, Dec 11 2015 10:27 PM

  srellim234:

  Compared to a real life handicapping system you will find that it is unfair.

  I don't - it's but different.

  You can't tell it "unfair" just because it follows other interests than your's ;)

  It's a valid measure against sandbagging, which was "supported" in the early days when you could climb up in tier to get access to good equipment, then drop down again for easier conditions to fleece other players.

  It also reflects the company's desire to have people play from further tees and buy expensive equipment. That's business.

  The newer "red tee" conditions reflect the company's New Idea to make the game easier. Apparently, too many players are tired by the long grind for Legend and higher tiers (which they invented to make some money in the first place), so they make it easier now.

  And, BTW, in European Golf Unions certain HCPs will be hindered to rise ever again, from 2016 on.

• Rabbit274 1,178 Posts

  Sat, Dec 12 2015 4:29 AM

  Can't really compare WGT to real life golf. Here, a player can rack up many rounds in a day, whereas for real, most amateurs will only manage a couple of rounds a week.

  The system seems reasonably fair to me.

• srellim234 2,077 Posts

  Sat, Dec 12 2015 6:51 AM

  alosso - You are right that the current system is a protection against sandbagging while playing games that are ranked. It doesn't protect against sandbagging by those who play unranked games (practice, CTTH, etc.) to hone their skills while gaining access to better equipment at higher levels and still fleecing other players.

  A side effect is that those who do get rooted out by the current system are now the multi-accounters fleecing lower level players with their skills while hiding behind a level and tier that doesn't reflect the skills and experience they have. That said, at least the multis don't have the top equipment any more.

  You mention the European Golf Unions not allowing "certain" handicaps from rising. I'm not familiar with the new system but I find it hard to believe they would hold a 30 or 40 year old, overweight and out of shape golfer, now only occasionally playing but not practicing, to his college golf team handicap of many years ago.

  Like any system anywhere, nothing is perfect but I do believe this system could use a little fine tuning. Even Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer don't play from the "tips" any more.