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Wedges: Cleveland 588 or TaylorMade ATV series

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 12:49 AM

  SimonTheBeetle:

  And by the stat numbers I see from the Proshop, I can't tell which one suits me better. The more I look and try to analyze them, the more confused I get. :(

  From this statement the conclusion might be correct that both sets would fit you equally well(?)

  My two Pfennig:

  To me, the main playing difference is the spacing: 50 - 75 - 100 for ATV, 60 - 80 - 100 for 588. Therefore, and combined with the punch shots and all the others, the ATV cover a broader range of full scale shots. They share the same meter speed, therefore it's easy to mix them as I do: Z-Satin 50, ATV 75, CG16 100 yards.

  Historically, the Cleves (meaning, their predecessors CG16) once were the only top wedges in the Pro Shop. Lateron, they remained the most favourised wedges in WGTland. At that time they were praised for their stopping ability, and they were cheaper than the ATVs, much cheaper than those 588s of today.

  Today, me thinks that the new Cleves are a luxury produce with three disadvantages: spacing, price, level. Of course, they are advantageous if you are facing those shots, but these details are beyond me.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 6:48 AM

  alosso:

  they are advantageous if you are facing those shots, but these details are beyond me.

  There is no distance the CGs can't deal with if you use them properly with all the shots.

• Robbo81303 417 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 9:58 AM

  Solarflares:

  The L52 Max-spin wedge is really cheap and can give an idea of just what the top-boys and girls are using - but it is only a stop-gap.

  Stop gap schmop gap.

  You can do anything with the L52 Max that you can do with a 588 Cleve and more....and at half the price & you can do it RIGHT NOW.

  Truly amazing wedges!

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 10:53 AM

  As I see it, ALL of the upper level wedges can be viewed as amazing and this could be mildly seen with the train of upgrades with them as one goes along. While the spec facts can be a very good guide to help explain results, these spec's must be imagined with ball type spec's. The high caliber performance is greatly affected by this marriage. This can be seen by hitting the exact same shot using the exact same wedge, but using, say,  a Srixon vs a Nike black. The difference is stunning.

  ~ SP ~.  

• SimonTheBeetle 3,645 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 8:59 PM

  K7JBQ:

  But as others have said, learn to use them, and they'll be your best friend on the course.

  I'm sure they will. Really looking forward to it. Thanks for your opinion, K7JBQ. :)

• SimonTheBeetle 3,645 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 9:08 PM

  alosso:

  Today, me thinks that the new Cleves are a luxury produce with three disadvantages: spacing, price, level. Of course, they are advantageous if you are facing those shots, but these details are beyond me.

  So you're going for TaylorMade ATVs rather than Cleveland 588s, am I getting it right?

  Yeah, I thought so as well on the distance spacing issue. With ATVs, it'll be easier to do a quick math on distance & power, and also more accurate on dealing short delicate shots under 50 yds. But people say Cleveland stops much better so... See my agony here?

• SimonTheBeetle 3,645 Posts

  Sat, Mar 26 2016 9:45 PM

  Solarflares:

  When modifying cars it's good-practice to advance stage by stage - out-growing the previous spec and knowing which parameters you wish to improve.

  You are level 73 with starter balls and wedges.

  "Expert" advice is something you won't be able to fathom.

  Imagine you are a 45 year old that has just passed their driving-test and someone starts talking to you about uneven-length wishbones , castor and ride-rake.  You wouldn't know what the hell they are on about.

  To put a 560bhp Ultima GTR in your hands would at the very least cause you embarrassment - and for certain be a waste of performance and handling-potential - however cool it looks on your drive-way.

  I'm not berating you , but you have just cost yourself 3,000 credits - which you really should have spent a lot earlier.

  My best advice is to buy the level 20's/30's 558 Clevelands ( 56 , 60 and 64) and to use a ball that has some dynamic-attributes.

  The Volvics and Calloways around that level are very useable - and will bring a level of dependability to any shot you play under 95 yards with those wedges - albeit with not quite the stopping-power you imagine.  But the level 51 Volvic is a ball that works very well with those wedges and you will just have to vector-in the inevitable-roll - landing a few yards earlier to achieve the approach-accuracy you desire.

  You've already worked for 73 levels with lifeless wedges and balls that love to roll 10 yards or more on every shot - so even these lower-end clubs and balls should be a revelation to your short-game.

  This will allow you to experiment and to grow your skill - until you can't wait anymore and simply have to have a wedge that stops-dead.

  The L52 Max-spin wedge is really cheap and can give an idea of just what the top-boys and girls are using - but it is only a stop-gap.

   

  Lastly , if you feel you can use wedges that have no forward-roll in the absence of a decent tail-wind - then by all means buy the level 80's Clevelands - but they will be incongruous with your irons until you reach level 85 - and your head will be all over the place.

  This is not criticism - just my view.

  Wow! Heck of a long comment, but I read it all thoroughly.

  First, I gotta say thank you for your profound insights and don't worry... no offense nor criticism got taken since you're right on all the comments you made. :)

  I have to mention, though, that the reason why I'm waiting 'til I get above the level 100+ and upgrade all the rest of my equipments is mainly because of the financial aspect. I've already spent about USD 80 on my equipments when I got around the lv. 50 and I told myself "Why not waiting for reaching to the lv. 100+ and purchasing the 'ultimate weapons' instead of buying equipments on the midway that will be dumped later anyway?".

  And yeah, I know... the starter ball and wedges that I'm using right now are ruining my scores and with the above-explained reason, I kinda consider myself going through the Dark Age of my WGT life and it's something that I gotta suck it up before I face the Renaissance of Level 100+.

  Nevertheless, I will indeed take all of your advices into consideration when needed. Thank you, Solarflares. :)

• Robbo81303 417 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2016 2:36 PM

  Solarflares:

  edit -   26/3/16  Robbo81303 won 0 skins in a 9-hole Skins Game on Oakmont Country Club.

  Well, wasn't that convenient.   FYI, that was against 2 players far better than you could ever dream of being, as are all my skins matches, many of which I've done quite well.

  Put your money where your mouth is & toss an invite sometime.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2016 2:57 PM

  SimonTheBeetle:

  With ATVs, it'll be easier to do a quick math on distance & power, and also more accurate on dealing short delicate shots under 50 yds. But people say Cleveland stops much better so... See my agony here?

  Yes, I do and it's quite simply overcome by learning just what you can do with a 64W. FWIW, these are the full swing distances with the 3 CG wedges (64,60,56)-these numbers can be had by using the chip, pitch, punch, flop and full swing by swinging 100%--7,11,16,17,20,25,29,33,50,60,68,80,84,100. Imagine how easy it is to fill in the gaps when you learn how to back off a particular shot or use spin. All of a sudden that shot under 50 yards isn't so delicate after all.

  The ATVs will be similar so you have to ask yourself what's more important-accuracy or forgiveness? The CGs are more accurate with better spin while the ATVs forgive more at the cost of accuracy and they have less spin. Those ATVs are the current version of the old Satin wedges (the first great clubs WGT came out with.) The CGs came along later and I was so impressed by the way they worked here that I went and got myself 2 of them for real-a 60W and a 56W. They're so good I now look for places to shoot to so I can use them.  They definitely make the short game here very strong. :-)