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• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 6:34 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  I can see your point but i have to disagree with the whole VEM thing. Regardless of its use or its purpose, it's just wrong for a game...let's focus for a moment on the key word: a game. There is no way a game to mimic real conditions. Every game has to be most of all, linear for all the players. Players have to be good enough to perform under certain parameters. He/she who performs better, wins.

  There is no such thing as simulating the real conditions. No player in real golf aims at west to approach at east. The whole concept of UL is just a joke. Furthermore, the roll of the ball in greens according to various breaks is absolutely out of place. In real life, ball ''feels'' the break more when has no weight and power. That means that last grids of any putt are most crucial for every attempt. Here is the opposite...first 2-3 grids are the most important to find your line, which is obviously quite wrong cause at first 5-6 ft the ball is speedy enough.

  No, it will not be boring, cause it's a game...and a game has to give credit on player's ability of knowledge and consistency, not trying screw him/her up on the first slight error. Is just wrong...at least in my opinion.

  I have no trouble to see this game getting tougher. Let's downgrade the clubs, balls e.t.c. Introducing things like VEM is definitely not the wright way. 

  IRL how many of us really swing that consistently.  IRL how many pros swing that consistently that often......VEM is not perfect but the best clubs retain so much accuracy anyway, yet VEM seems to get so emotive so quickly.  A while back there was a thread and yes the obvious arguments over a zero wind RG seeing the odd ball clear the water at the CCC long par 5 water hole and a couple of shots that actually forced a couple of putts, but really that was it.  

  Wind is also variable per hole, and I think that leads to far more differences than any VEM...when I was actually playing.  

  I do agree downgrading clubs and balls would be great, but the corporate plan seems to not want any part of it.  Doubt it would stop arguments either, but that part is what it is.

  Also it is worth pointing out that as a L101 Legend and gear and ability to match you already have a solid head start on most of your other L tier competitors,  If they deleted VEM, and it's not a killer like some think IMO as said, where would there be any competition left?  You are pretty much killing it down there anyway often enough, and so VEM is hardly in your way v often ?

  My thoughts.

• Yiannis1970 3,309 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 9:59 AM

  Jimbog1964:

  IRL how many of us really swing that consistently.  IRL how many pros swing that consistently that often......VEM is not perfect but the best clubs retain so much accuracy anyway, yet VEM seems to get so emotive so quickly.  A while back there was a thread and yes the obvious arguments over a zero wind RG seeing the odd ball clear the water at the CCC long par 5 water hole and a couple of shots that actually forced a couple of putts, but really that was it.  

  Wind is also variable per hole, and I think that leads to far more differences than any VEM...when I was actually playing.  

  I do agree downgrading clubs and balls would be great, but the corporate plan seems to not want any part of it.  Doubt it would stop arguments either, but that part is what it is.

  Also it is worth pointing out that as a L101 Legend and gear and ability to match you already have a solid head start on most of your other L tier competitors,  If they deleted VEM, and it's not a killer like some think IMO as said, where would there be any competition left?  You are pretty much killing it down there anyway often enough, and so VEM is hardly in your way v often ?

  My thoughts.

   

   

  Let's not mixing up 2 different things..Golf is a sport, WGT is a game. Golf as a sport has rules and conditions that sportsmen/women have to deal with. WGT on the other hand has its own that players have to deal with. VEM is not a part of the game. It's just simply a workaround added for simulating what? The real play?

   

  As i said before, there are a lot of aspects of the real game which WGT can work on, as the irregular ball rolling on greens or the uneven lie concept. VEM has nothing to do with player's ability and is just a flaw addition to the gameplay. If a player is good enough to learn this game well in order to have consistently good scores, well..that's the goal. Well done to him/her and amen. Introducing things like VEM in order to destroy his game, is just simply a bad idea.

   

  You know well as i do, that after introducing 90+ L TM irons, the gap between a 92 L player and a 102 L player has become very small. In my opinion, VEM has nothing to do with the gear. Gear is what it is and we all play with the same.

  My point has nothing to do with me. Why you are asking me this? VEM has not been introduced equitas shake or to make the game more fair. So, the whole point has nothing  to do whether i shoot 55 or 66. The concept of usage of such thing is wrong, plus the way is working. To make the long story short VEM is there whenever a player is good enough to make perfect rounds. It's there to punish him/her cause plays so well...do you realize the assurdity?

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 10:21 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  You know well as i do, that after introducing 90+ L TM irons, the gap between a 92 L player and a 102 L player has become very small. In my opinion, VEM has nothing to do with the gear. Gear is what it is and we all play with the same.

  My point has nothing to do with me. Why you are asking me this? VEM has not been introduced equitas shake or to make the game more fair. So, the whole point has nothing  to do whether i shoot 55 or 66. The concept of usage of such thing is wrong, plus the way is working. To make the long story short VEM is there whenever a player is good enough to make perfect rounds. It's there to punish him/her cause plays so well...do you realize the assurdity?

  The gap between L90 and L100 equipment is indeed small, but it's there and in 1 shot tight RG can't be ignored.  

  Accuracy is tied to clubs, and VEM mainly to play.  I also think VEM is way slighter than many think, and overridingly so most of the time. Is what it is until you get a real WTF and cuss.  They won't  be changing it, and good players put in decent rounds very often anyway

• Yiannis1970 3,309 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 10:41 AM

  Jimbog1964:

   

  The gap between L90 and L100 equipment is indeed small, but it's there and in 1 shot tight RG can't be ignored.  

   

  True. Imagine now the VEM thing on a greater scale...let's say the VUSO. Isn't that wrong for the players who trying their best?

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 10:47 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  Jimbog1964:

   

  The gap between L90 and L100 equipment is indeed small, but it's there and in 1 shot tight RG can't be ignored.  

   

  True. Imagine now the VEM thing on a greater scale...let's say the VUSO. Isn't that wrong for the players who trying their best?

   

  Same player won it two years running............It's not loaded russian roulette like some think, but it's there.

• Yiannis1970 3,309 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 11:42 AM

  Jimbog1964:

  Same player won it two years running...........

   

  Yes...so? They played well and they won it. All good. Why has to be some sort of alien factor* to decide who wins and who loses?

   

  *VEM

   

• WGTicon 12,511 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 3:37 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  WGTicon:

  we believe in not just banning a player but to explain what they are doing wrong and how it can be fixed (if it's appropriate). we also try to give second chances and work with the player if possible. obviously, there are times when there is no way to go back and ban is appropriate.

  Hold the phone because I am not sure you always do that at all.

  I am told that many players (who set out to) can ding with a real high percentage, but someone got banned with a % I am told is no higher than several (out of the ones that want to ding).  I can only go by what I know / see / told recently, but it's by real sensible players who do not get it at all.     You will have to excuse me for not feeling warm and fuzzy with that above quote.  

  jayw4862:

  WGTicon:

  we believe in not just banning a player but to explain what they are doing wrong and how it can be fixed (if it's appropriate).

  I watched the twitch stream (a couple of times) that you and shoe watched (the bits and pieces, as the connection seemed to suck) and my opinion is it would be fair to that player to allow him to share screens via skype, which won't interfere with his meter/game at all. 

  The email reply from WGT to him blew my mind. 40%? Only on a horrible day, by the top players, if they're using starter balls. 

  Just my thoughts on that one player. 

  Maybe you guys know something we don't. All I'm going by is the stream and the chat. 

  I am sure that sharing skype screen is an option too. I wasnt privy to those discussions, but the again, the goal is not to ban players who play this game fairly....

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Wed, Jul 13 2016 6:19 PM

  pdb1:

  Knowing what we know about the VEM is a bubble burster in itself . The fact that it exists especially at the higher levels . It would have to be a complete coincidence that the same person won anything 2 years in a row . 

  And a coincidence that he and several others always seem to be the same ones winning a lot.......

  With respect the only VEM you get will be helping you.  VEM is not going to be what's between a player winning countless RGs, and it takes a very good player who really knows "that shot" inside out to even see it (in a valid way).  It can also be fine lines discussion as to real VEM or normal circles of precision and that's good players looking.

  No offense to you but I think that point is worth appreciating.  In any one round it can potentially create a couple of testing putts (and yes I get the water argument which people can have all day with that shot over the water at CCC / once every great while absolute WTF).