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High ding rate = cheating?

Sat, Dec 31 2016 5:26 PM (437 replies)
  • twinponds169
    3,044 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 5:20 PM

    jeffmatulich:
    Seriously do you not know what an average is?  Checked your stats lately?  How many more 300+ yard drives do you think you need in order to bump your driving stat up 1 yard?  (answer - a g-damn shiate load).  So this cat needed a shiate load of 95%+ ding rounds to get him to a 79% ding stat....Nope....NOT REAL.

    I could be wrong, but.... I thought WGT stated that they monitored the ding rate for just a 30 day period before the ban to get this 79%. Don't think this was a career rate as you compare it to increasing your avg drive distance.

  • WigerToods2010
    8,447 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 5:29 PM

    mkg335:
    Johnny, maybe a little light reading will help you fall asleep?  (All in good fun, bud)

    Engrossed with Osram's Best Sellers of 2015 at the moment. Not the most intellectual work, granted. Still, it gives me a wee glow whilst others appear to be left in the dark... with no mention of sharp objects either.

    "Zzz....Zzz...Zzz........"

    :-)

  • Jimbog1964
    8,378 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 5:35 PM

    jeffmatulich:
    So how do you (or subject in question) know that?  Gave'm a try for awhile there eh? didn't work out so much?  went for other solutions? Must know something we don't.. ----- You are not helping here......

    Your assumptive ignorance is the bit that is not helping.

    jeffmatulich:
    So he already understands how they work and has considered how to circumvent...............uhmmmmmm? --- Not helping here......

    Well he does understand the first part now.  The second part looks common sense........Trouble is you prove common sense lacks common to many.  Clue - try google it's a new thing, but with patience you may find it.

    jeffmatulich:
    WGT would say otherwise. And I for one trust their judgement.

    Where should this be hard?  But then the above two I never thought would be.  WGT say it, and they got the 40% part wrong, and got the Mr Otto wrong.........You can read other opinions on the thread.  All of whom seem way more balanced on it must be true because you use your lack of knowledge to surmise.  Anyway made your point as have others and that 79% is looking high over a 30 day period IF it's teh one part they got completely right IF......IF does not mean just because you think it must be.

     

     

  • jeffmatulich
    482 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 6:19 PM

    twinponds169:
    Don't think this was a career rate as you compare it to increasing your avg drive distance.

    No shiate...ffs -- really, I knew someone would have to chime in with that....knew it...

    Was just trying to give an example of how averages are computed.....its simple math man...~80% means he was hovering between 90 and 70% ding (or 95 and 65 ---- or 100 and 60 give a few) consistently for 30 freakin days.  Thats all....simple math (bell curve/standard deviation stuff).   That is not happening in this game without aid.  Throw me a friggen bone here.  (Pinky up to corner of mouth) <would post laughable pic but am too bored>

     

    Seriously........really.  

    There was something amiss

    They took a look

    Found anomalies which were not aligned against expected (well defined) results

    Asked for explanation - got "I dunno"

    Asked for confirmation of playing ability and skill

    Outcome - Said skill set fell woefully short upon real world examination

    Player (cheater i.e. larcenist) removed

    Done

     

    How is this not OK for the broader wgt community?  Tell me...Seriously.  How is this not ok.  Should we/they have given him 10 rounds, 20? to reach a ~80% mark?  Maybe, but I seriously doubt the outcome would have supported a positive outcome in his case.  

    Now the questions are (as many have posited) - 

    Is the 40% general pop ding rate for top players really 40%?  Hmmmm - perhaps given all the non-ding shots we take - seems quite plausible actually considering how the game is played.  Many dingers, just as many more non-ding players....balances out.  Even ding players won't hit the ding within 4ft....I don't - takes too much time to aim et. al. and is unnecessary.....mostly.  However, I do think its a little low....but not by almost 40% -  More like upper 40s.....Just my opinion.

    Second - How was the 79% calculated? Hmmmm - Dunno. but would imagine that they would have taken the aggregate of all shots - to be fair - right?  I mean as we have all seen from the data - and our own personal experience - the approach shots are incredibly more difficult to ding than any of the others.  It would be asinine to think they would have only focused in on that (or any other) variable from their analysis to form their opinion. Truth is however we do not know but these are real people trying to make a real business out of this.  They are not into covert manipulation of data to oust someone just cuz.....they are trying to level the playing field so that more people feel comfortable spending more money within the game to help increase overall revenue. Simple as that.  BTW I've never EVER played for credits in this game because I knew from the get go that it was being "gamed".  Remove that fear factor and people will start to be more engaged (with their wallets).

    Have a nice weekend all.....going to A-dam --- (probably have to visit a couple coffee houses and smart shops after this thread/rant/whateva)

    cheers,

    Jeff

  • mbcarp99
    1,078 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 6:30 PM

    Jimbog1964:
    and they got the 40% part wrong,

    I don't think they did get the 40% wrong, i am pretty sure that is an average ding rate or thereabouts, sure some players will average higher, maybe 50/55% and certainly there are rounds for seasoned players of 80/90% but not in any way consistently, the average i would guess is nearer 40% and i think if this thread continued for the next 2 years no one would get anywhere near 79% on a months analysis

    So are you saying that the 79% stated by WGT is true but they had no proof he was achieving that dishonestly or are you saying they are lying about the 79%

     

  • twinponds169
    3,044 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 7:10 PM

    jeffmatulich:
    No shiate...ffs -- really, I knew someone would have to chime in with that....knew it...

    Then next time use a better example than the dipshiate one you used comparing the ups and downs of a 30 day average to the movement of one that usually has several thousand games built into it. And take your big anal opening attitude and go eff yourself with it, you might feel better.

  • coors71
    656 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 7:40 PM

    Ok, the 40% and 79% are both from WGT. No the are going to disclose their information on these two numbers. Yes we are left to speculate where and how they came up with these numbers. We do not know if that 79% is right or not. All we have is what WGT has sent to him. 

     

    Dear Tom,


    So we have discussed with Shoe and Icon after they watched your stream and your account is going to remain closed.


    In the previous 30 days to us closing your account your Ding rate was at 79%. This is way way way above the average of other top players. They come in around 40%. It is pretty clear that you are using an Auto Dinger. We tried to give you the chance to tell us the program you were using so we could investigate that specific Auto Dinger, but you insisted you did not know what we were talking about.


    During your stream you dinged at a rate of 40% and we were generous giving you dings when the screen froze. Due to this and yourm unwillingness to be honest with us about the exact Auto Dinger you were using, the decision to keep your acount closed is finale.


    WGT Member Servies

     

     

    They came up with those numbers. Since we know it was 9 holes and he scored -8, we can assume we can come up with the same formula they have. But it clearly states " in the last 30 days" . Now is it me or is that a tad unfair to assume he would score the 79% in a single game? They contradict themselves severely in a single e-mail.

     

    We just that information, we have scrambled to emulate his percentages ourselves. But how are we to do that if it was over a 30 day period? I say we can not do that unless we ourselves play for 30 days and then get the percentages. And after said 30 days, who would really care anymore? I can sense it is now waning as to the real topic of this thread is being lost to other conversations. Some have stayed on topic but not all.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, this is America still. Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. But the main reason behind this whole thread is that some feel an innocent man was wrongly accused . Tom would brag, or taunt or whatever you want to call it,  about his games. Now why would someone boast so loudly and draw attention themselves if they were just going to be put under a microscope?

     

    That, in it's self , would be like a bank robber calling attention to themselves if the wrong person was placed under arrest.  When he played a good round, he posted it in the CC,score card and all. He posted screen shots of skin games etc etc. If you are doing anything dishonest , would any one of you bring attention to yourselves? I think not. SO not everyone is perfect, not everyone can do something as good as another. But then again that person may not have your skill set in another area. 

    Then there is the discussion of WGT's programming of this game. And I will have to say, unless you are part of that programming , how do you really know what is involved? There are programs designed to detect hacks for flash based games. If WGT is smart, they had it up and running from the start. There are so many cheating programs available on the net, it just amazes me people would want to cheat such a simple game really. 

    But the main point I am trying to make, and sorry if I rambled some what, is that WGT is in the wrong here and will not admit it. One reason could simply be that someone close to the game had a beef with him. Made a simple request over a lost game or credits and it was granted. Now getting that turned around would be impossible. From what I have heard, read etc, that seems to be a viable answer really. But take in to accout, I am NOT saying that is what happened. 

    Ok there is my post, so go ahead and tear my theories apart people. I am here 24/7, disabled. Let it begin.

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 7:49 PM

    jeffmatulich:

    Asked for confirmation of playing ability and skill

    Outcome - Said skill set fell woefully short upon real world examination

    Right...I agree ....-8 through 9...woefully short of expectations.

     

    So...when does you next Novel come out?

     

    FFS

  • jeffmatulich
    482 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 8:20 PM

    twinponds169:
    Then next time use a better example

    deskpalm.....

    /not the point entirely........

    /and I did......f/ttool

    /math

    break it down real simple for you.........so how about looking at 30 rounds avg. score 29 (870 shots).....

    you have 20 rounds well above "average" at say 70% (580 shots 406 dings - whew smoking' numbers already)---- how many more dings do you need to get to a 79% ding rate?  A fk load.....is the answer...Like 99.bla bla bla% ding rate over the next 10 rounds.... 

    Good grief - go back to school and learn something --- you might like it, though I doubt you would.

    Edit - and Bag.... Score was NOT the issue here......has no bearing on the discussion in terms of ding% and why he was asked to perform this exercise.  Yawn... I mean like who cares what he shot - its irrelevant.....how many times did he hit the ding? that what was under investigation and under the microscope.

     

     

    ffs- really?

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Robert1893
    7,722 Posts
    Fri, Jul 22 2016 8:41 PM

    coors71:
    Tom would brag, or taunt or whatever you want to call it,  about his games. Now why would someone boast so loudly and draw attention themselves if they were just going to be put under a microscope?

    That, in it's self , would be like a bank robber calling attention to themselves if the wrong person was placed under arrest.  When he played a good round, he posted it in the CC,score card and all. He posted screen shots of skin games etc etc. If you are doing anything dishonest , would any one of you bring attention to yourselves? I think not. 

    Actually, that type of behavior is not all that unusual from people who are less than honest. I'm not saying this person is dishonest. I don't know. But your analogy doesn't quite hold. That's especially so because some who engage in actual theft do live lifestyles that appear to beyond their means. 

    In any case, if people are arrogant enough to cheat some are going to be arrogant enough to think they won't be caught. Simply put: they think they're smarter than everyone else. So, in my opinion, this argument really has less weight than you give it. 

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