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High ding rate = cheating?

• Yiannis1970 3,288 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 4:51 AM

  duffputt:

  DING stats from Duffputt shooting 62 on Chambers Bay 500cr ready-to-go 100983:

  24 out of 62=38,7%

  Thats rather normal for me. I always try dinging all shots. Top level Nike balls and top level irons.

  62 is a semi-bad round for me on Chambers bay. The mistakes on this round was both the dinging but alo sloppy calculations. I assume dinging issues was worth 3 shots. Another  shot 3 shots from calculation and aiming.

   

  I try to ding every shot i can...it's how i play, it's how i learned to play, it's how i set up the shot, it's how i calculate the distance. Still waiting from WGT to confirm if this way is licit or not...and yes, sometimes on a good day i can ding 7-8 out of 10.

   

• PTrenter 437 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 5:33 AM

  Thought I'd track my ding % today.  I've played 36 holes so far and bar 2 flops(which I play to misding), I did my best to hit the ding every time.  The overall result was a 51.59 overall ding rate.  Looks good and I surprised myself but when you break it down, the flaw in this system becomes apparent.

  Driver - 42%

  Irons - 35%

  Putter - 70%

  I've highlighted the anomaly, and there are 2 reason for the high success with the putter.

  1. Method of putting.  I was shown a few years back(thank you Stevietwotimes) that the shorter you pull the club back, the easier the ding is to find.  For example if I want to hit 15ft, I'll hit 25% on the 60 scale rather than 50% on a 30 or full whack on a 15 scale.

  2. Tap ins.  If you miss a putt(or have arrowed one in) you are usually left with a putt where you can be well off the ding and still sink it.  I usually switch off a bit on those as I know the ding isn't going to make much difference.  Today I made the effort and pretty much dinged all the tap ins as you don't need much on the smallest scale.

  Of course these are personal preferences and not everyone plays the same way.  It goes to show though that a high ding rate can be misleading if every shot is taken into account.

• Jresh0817 1,414 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 5:40 AM

  I agree with you...I learned the way to play was to hit the ding....On 90% of my drives and almost all of my approaches I try to hit ding......So you are telling me that If i have a good run with my meter being good and I have a good month and Ding my shots I could get in trouble??????WTH,The whole point of my game is to try and hit ding.......Something else has to be in play here....I just do not believe the 40% top players BS....I have watched many youtube videos where you see ding after ding being acheived....

  Yiannis1970:

  duffputt:

  DING stats from Duffputt shooting 62 on Chambers Bay 500cr ready-to-go 100983:

  24 out of 62=38,7%

  Thats rather normal for me. I always try dinging all shots. Top level Nike balls and top level irons.

  62 is a semi-bad round for me on Chambers bay. The mistakes on this round was both the dinging but alo sloppy calculations. I assume dinging issues was worth 3 shots. Another  shot 3 shots from calculation and aiming.

   

  I try to ding every shot i can...it's how i play, it's how i learned to play, it's how i set up the shot, it's how i calculate the distance. Still waiting from WGT to confirm if this way is licit or not...and yes, sometimes on a good day i can ding 7-8 out of 10.

   

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 5:57 AM

  jayw4862:

  I watched a few top player's random videos and counted, including and excluding putts, dings. The lowest was 66%. The highest was 90%. Even averaged out, that's 78%. The 40% ding rate is BS, even if it's based solely on approach shots. 

  Jay I looked at Mags recorded rounds. Initially the VUSO (R1-3) ones, and only drives and approaches.

  R1 Drives: 7 drives out of 17 (41%) dinged  Approaches 5 out of 13 dinged (38%) overall 40%. (A drive and an approach were missing).  R2 came in at 55.9% and round 3 was also about 55%.

  I then tried what I thought would be better ball striking rounds; 52's on BOF 3rd July and  PB on 15th April.

  PB: 10 drives dinged out of 17 (59%) 7 approaches out of 14 (50%) overall 55%. (again a drive and a approach missing, apparently the drive was a ding the approach not) 

  BoF: 3 drives out of 18 (17%) 12 approaches out of 16 (75%) overall 44%. 

  I was looking for the best striking rounds now and on Mags advice used some of the ones he played with Nike blacks.

  17th April 2015 KI F9 (25) Edit: Approaches changed from a wrong 22%

  Drives dinged 5 out of 9 (56%) approaches 2 out of 7 (29%) overall 44%.

  With these three I counted putts too, 7 out of 9 (78%) overall with putts 56%

  28th Dec 2015 CB F9 (26)

  Drives dinged 3 out of 9 (33%), approaches 4 out of 7 (57%) overall 44%.

  Putts 7 out of 10 (70%) overall with putts 54%.

  28th Dec 2015 CB B9 (24)

  Drives 8 out of 9 (89%)  approaches 2 out of 5 (40%) overall 71%.

  Putts 7 out of 9 (78%) overall with putts 74%.

  I didn't like the last of these rounds as it's dominated by putts and drives, with only 5 approaches but couldn't discard the highest dinging one.  I then started just clicking through rounds discarding them when he missed a few dings and  I was looking at a congressional round (18 hole, maybe the 52 on the 17th April) that looked like being about 70% but stupidly clicked into an ad lost it and can't start again now.

  I listed the rounds I used in detail in case I made a mistake anywhere. 

  It would be important to know whether wgt included putts in the mentioned percentages, not if there was any sense attached to it.

  Remember too what I was looking at was rounds Mags had kept for people to watch, ones he scored best in, I doubt if the worst striking ones are there.  I assume you were looking at similar, apologies if that's wrong.  

  I know the best score doesn't necessarily mean the best ding % but he does play to ding it and after much watching I know the dinged approaches are generally his best ones.  The best way would probably be to watch someone like Mags live for a decent amount of time.

  Of course it may be that Mags isn't very good at dinging and gets his scores other ways.  Do I believe he could average "around 40%" dings?  On the numbers I've seen and remembering these are some of his better rounds; no if putts are included, if drives and approaches i'd be a little bit surprised and it'd be close if only approaches.

  I'm not keen on the "around 40%" from wgt which gives quite a bit of leeway, I'm not keen on not knowing precisely what shots they're talking about.

  I have no idea whether anyone is cheating on this or not, as said I don't know what the numbers are based on.  My starting point was the thought that surely wgt wouldn't outright lie (the around 40% and 79%).  Another thing I'd like to know is on their figures are there any other players in the 70's or any in the 60's as an average.

  I'm sorry for any opinions folk don't like, they are only that and I'm not saying I'm right.  The numbers are what they are and could probably be used to show things in a different way.

  The trial sounds brutal, I know I get nervous if I think I'm in contention on a 50 credit rg, aside from all the other problems.

  If it was a friend of mine I'd certainly be trying to get more information, at least.

   

• krskfr 458 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 8:23 AM

  I'm surprise WGT is allowing that email conversation between them and the person in question, on these forums. That's private, and no business of ours even though i fully disagree with his punishment all due to high ding rate versus lower ding rate while streaming. Gotta give a little bit of love to wgt for allowing that email to be posted on these forums.

• Robert1893 7,716 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 10:19 AM

  While I understand people approach situations like these differently and people place varying degrees of importance on things like a hobby, I would have never agreed to the terms WGT set.
  
  In other words, if they accused me of cheating (and I know I'm not cheating), I would have never agreed to set up some sort of test to prove to them that I don't cheat. I would have simply said:

  I don't cheat. It's as simple as that. Believe me, don't believe; I don't care. But it's just a game, and I'm not going to lie about something like this. Now you decide what action you're going to take. That's up to you. But I'm not going to jump through hoops to prove to you that I have integrity. I know I do and that's all that matters.  

• duffputt 314 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 10:22 AM

  

  I'll be more than happy if WGT show some fairness here. I came second as I remember but also knew that around the last 10 days the unmentionable would post a lower score. He did. I was not surprised. No one was!

   

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 10:43 AM

  well  I am no computer wiz, but I think FireFox offers some kind of way to manipulate flash games.

  I think its called Tamper Data

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 10:52 AM

  Also I think an auto dinger is run on time it takes the meter to get to the ding line, I believe its an application that runs alone ,so if thats the case ity can not be detected by WGT. 

  Just saying for everyone's knowledge.

   

  Also it is a fact that WGT looks at your IP number. I know this first hand, because my wife started playing again, with my coaching of distance to hit using my excel sheet , and after spending $185.00 to gear her up WGT shut down her account, also part of the $185.00 was a $60.00 that they took twice, and would not refund.

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 10:55 AM

  They may shut me off after this post, but I really don't care