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High ding rate = cheating?

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 8:05 PM

  Baggs, one of my clubmates can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, he didn't know the criterion they were using.  It was only afterwards that they mentioned the 79% ding rate for the previous 30 days was the measuring stick.

  To then use the 40% ding rate obtained under the adverse conditions already detailed as proof that he must have been cheating previously is what's got our dander up.

  Ultimately they wanted him to confess to a crime that he didn't commit.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 8:07 PM

  Correspondence:

  There is no load to put up.  He got the wall of Ts and Cs he breached initially, and from that go pick which one you like I guess.

  He entered the x9 hole round with his task manager up as requested.  Some correspondence organising that, but nothing else of note.

  He played.  He shot -8 thru 9, but with an awful meter (accepted) he was dinging near half of what they say he was.  Then came the correspondence you have.........Nothing to speak of from the company apart from that, and nothing much at all anyway from them.  Fair bit from us to them, but as you would expect a brick wall and in fairness we would not expect them to discuss the matter with anyone but him anyway.

  I don't trust the 40% base mark, and I think with good reason.  They won't break it down any more than they have, we do know that.

  What we do know is someone asked about their ding % and got the below italics, and so maybe they can pull dings up at will.  Did they pull it up properly from big rounds and exclude putts from it I have no clue obviously :

  Dear XXXX,

  Thank you for your message. Unfortunately this kind of information we are going to keep solely in our records. We don't want to give anyone a reason to speculate anything in our community by making these stats public, also, it takes an unreasonable amount of time to pull and receive this data.

  If you have any other questions, let us know.

  Sincerely,

  WGT Member Services

  
  

  We also know the "trial" was worthless nonsense, but requests for a *fairer look* are on deaf ears.

  *-* see above skype discussion in some posts

   

  mkg335:

  Baggs, one of my clubmates can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, he didn't know the criterion they were using.  It was only afterwards that they mentioned the 79% ding rate for the previous 30 days was the measuring stick.

  To then use the 40% ding rate obtained under the adverse conditions already detailed as proof that he must have been cheating previously is what's got our dander up.

  Ultimately they wanted him to confess to a crime that he didn't commit.

  yes yes and yes........The crime he was accused of was using a new sinister auto dinger.  A new sinister auto dinger that remains yet to be invented...............Lets not lose sight of the clear and unambiguous accusation here.  I see no need for assuming many things as to what he may or may not have been doing with that in mind.....  

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 8:26 PM

  Jeff, you said there must be more to this than meets the eye, that wgt must have more information they're considering besides the ding rate stats (and by now "79% ding rate" has probably replaced "the magic bullet" and "the grassy knoll" in the conspiracy lexicon) but I'm not so sure.

  I think it's very possible that they're telling the truth, at least in this case, and that the 79%/40% discrepancy was the sole criterion used.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 8:41 PM

  mkg335:

  I think it's very possible that they're telling the truth, at least in this case, and that the 79%/40% discrepancy was the sole criterion used.

   

  Well based on what you and Jim have said...this is totally BS...i/e if one is accused, they should be told what for...not "go shoot 9 at VV, and let's see how you do"...so the guy goes out to post a good score-and does-then is told in a nutshell "we don't care about how well you were scoring, just how many times you dinged it"

   

  That aint right.

   

  And for anyone reading this, I've never [layed with Q...my only encounter with him was a question/observation in the forums to him

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 10:56 PM

  Judging a player just by their ding rate won't ever prove anything unless it's a crazy high percentage. I'm very sure wgt has the percentages of ding rate now but they won't ever disclose the numbers because it will just cause a witch hunt. If they see something wrong they will do something about it, as has been seen by a precious German player starting with the letter T! :) When you go above a 90 percent ding rate... Which the best players will do one round here and there, this doesn't prove anything. Even if auto ding cheating was decided off this percentage if one is cheating they can probably set it to ding early or late based on how they prefer to play the game late or early.

  btw, I posted this idea in one of my idiotic previous posts before long ago which I hope no one remembers :P I was shot down majorly

  That does lead to the next question. Are their some on here who understand this and take advantage of it? 

  I think so, but if you're just plain damn good it doesn't matter...

  AB

   

   

• Lutjanid 697 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 11:01 PM

                             I have played with Q. Our Match play record is 1-7.  That's 7 to him by the way. I met him in Finny's mplay tourney. Had some great laughs on the course and I pegged him for a good guy. I annoyed him non stop with questions and he always replied to my messages in quick time and with lot's of helpful info about the game.

                             I don't think he was cheating with auto ding, in fact he hit plenty of wide shots when we played. Thing is then he would pour in the putt. The man could putt the absolute eyes out of it. Our tee to green games were not that far apart, maybe 1 shot a round. However he was easily 5 shots per 18h better on the greens, I'm not sure how auto-ding can help with that. Perhaps I just don't want to think he was cheating because I had judged him to be a decent and upstanding human being.

                            To be brutally honest here, WGT don't have to do anything. It's their platform. We just play on it. They can ban or boot whoever they like for any reason they want. I'm not saying they would or have but it's their house and they make the rules. What can anyone do about it?  Not like you can take them to court for not letting you play their golf game. Yes you could stage a boycott, but I have heard those hollow words thrown around the forums plenty of times without any real substance in the follow up. I miss playing and chatting with Q, we had some good times out there.

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 3:12 AM

  AgentBrown123:

  German player starting with the letter T

  This guy? Why would he be still shown as the winner (this from today's news - 7/21/16)? What was the prize? If there's a monetary value, a legitimate player has been robbed. Is this an effort to save a few bucks?

  

  I guess someone forgot to "confirm" the non-sweepstakes winners.

  On the subject of Q. I downloaded the stream(s) and have watched several times, read the chat, and have the email from WGT. My questions are this:

  Why keep asking what cheat program he uses when he keeps saying he doesn't use any? 

  Why let the judges of his "chance to show live play" be 2 "at best" OK players themselves? 

  Why not do a simple share screen on Skype? 1/10th the lag/disconnects.

   

  The top players (myself definitely excluded) can ding a starter ball over 40% of the time (tee shots and irons/wedges).

  I watched a few top player's random videos and counted, including and excluding putts, dings. The lowest was 66%. The highest was 90%. Even averaged out, that's 78%. The 40% ding rate is BS, even if it's based solely on approach shots. 

  I agree that it would too easy to manipulate any program to not ding. Maybe that's why ever since this security broom came out, any missed ding is magnified. 

  This SS can't monitor processes on someone's PC. If it could, Q wouldn't have been asked countless times "what program do you use, so we can look into/add it"? The SS process monitor would know, and there'd be no need to ask.

  Funny how the people doing the real damage to Topgolf are the black market credit sellers, and they're still thriving!! Cumulatively, they probably come close to making as much per month as Topgolf does from Pro Shop sales. Maybe because the major sellers are old school, and friends with the popo, they get the old "turn a blind eye" treatment, or a private warning to slack off for a bit. 

  Be wise if everyone used Topgolf's customer service/contact us option to deal with questionable aspects of this game, and not WGT's, which is evidently clueless, untruthful, and/or biased.

  PS... I use AHK (auto hotkey), too. I have to wear my eye patch for a few more weeks, and the hotkey opens my ruler. Just in case the SS program monitor spots it :-)

  VEM me up. I can half see at the moment, anyway :-)

   

• duffputt 314 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 3:33 AM

  DING stats from Duffputt shooting 62 on Chambers Bay 500cr ready-to-go 100983:

  24 out of 62=38,7%

  Thats rather normal for me. I always try dinging all shots. Top level Nike balls and top level irons.

  62 is a semi-bad round for me on Chambers bay. The mistakes on this round was both the dinging but alo sloppy calculations. I assume dinging issues was worth 3 shots. Another  shot 3 shots from calculation and aiming.

• coors71 656 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 3:47 AM

  jayw4862:

  Be wise if everyone used Topgolf's customer service/contact us option to deal with questionable aspects of this game, and not WGT's, which is evidently clueless, untruthful, and/or biased.

   

   I did use the TP Customer service/contact option! and the response I got was..........

   

  We received your email that you sent to Topgolf. Thank you for reaching out to us. When it comes to players accounts and if they were closed or why, due to privacy reasons we are unable to discuss anything about them.

  WGT Member Services

   

  So good luck with that suggestion, it will not work, seems TP has washed it's hands to be involved in any matters connected to WGT. 

• bubbsboy 6,879 Posts

  Thu, Jul 21 2016 4:00 AM

  So you sent an email to topgolf who own WGT "WGT by Topgolf"

  Topgolf sent it to WGT to deal with

  WGT send you that message.

  Well firms can be sub-contracted out but they are accountable in long run

  Seems as though "this is final" on end of previous message you lot posted, is it.

  I read Q is imsomniac and WGT is his fix.

  Please let him know that "the other game" has improved greatly, a director in our club does all our main tables in club but has not played WGT for months, plays that instead.

  2 other champs in our club are doing the same, and they have the bug, they have a twitch post all to themselves on our website (thats ours not WGTs) and a lot of us watch them in action (golf that is).

  My lappy does not have high enough specs, but im sorting out a possible desk top from an I.T lad where i work..........then i will also, as im impressed with what i see.

  So let Q know............if he can, get that and sit up enjoying that, seems only way forward now

  Bubbs