Forums

High ding rate = cheating?

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 6:22 PM

  At the last several posts:

  One thing I do agree with is that it was not Mr Otto as they said it was.  As discussed at length he is not very good.

  It's also not packets, IMO.  His scores were not that "good".

  Leaves only one that I know of as also discussed at length elsewhere.  If Q was using that to ding loads he certainly would be stupid.  

  Now someone said way back some get too confident and think they can roughshod the law.  As likely of course is someone cheating with that would not get as carried away and leave themselves that open.  The black market most certainly has a few more $s flowing through it.  A point alluded to perhaps earlier by another poster........All highly speculative, and that's the problem as much as anything.

  His "trial" certainly showed he can shoot OK without dinging - I think we can all agree -8 thru 9 with an awful meter, not knowing what they were looking for and after two weeks off is "OK".

  WGTs Skype offer rescinded by their silence it seems.  I will agree they look intransigent, and look to have taken the view they will let this blow over in the hardly read forums.

• Duckster789 534 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 7:21 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  ...His "trial" certainly showed he can shoot OK without dinging - I think we can all agree -8 thru 9 with an awful meter, not knowing what they were looking for and after two weeks off is "OK"....

  No one questions that he was a very good player and can score well, but when playing in RG's or big credit tournaments, a few automatic dings can make a huge difference and give that person an edge over other good players.

• TheAceFactor 2,147 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 7:23 PM

  Jim ,   just a question to you , but aimed at most. I can talk to you. Your very level headed. I ask , why , why on Earth would anyone want , or be worried about an auto dinger thingy ? I sometimes ding putts , but I'm more than often pushing putts out into the break ,   pulling putts to keep them online early , I'm pulling drives into a 20-22 mph. left to right cross , I'm fanning approaches and hanging them high and right out into a big 18-20 mph. right to left cross , we're drawing and fading drives around corners....WHY  would anyone want one ? An auto dinger would restrict and hinder my game... Big time !

   

                                                                                                              ~Ace~

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 7:48 PM

  TheAceFactor:

  Jim ,   just a question to you , but aimed at most. I can talk to you. Your very level headed. I ask , why , why on Earth would anyone want , or be worried about an auto dinger thingy ? I sometimes ding putts , but I'm more than often pushing putts out into the break ,   pulling putts to keep them online early , I'm pulling drives into a 20-22 mph. left to right cross , I'm fanning approaches and hanging them high and right out into a big 18-20 mph. right to left cross , we're drawing and fading drives around corners....WHY  would anyone want one ? An auto dinger would restrict and hinder my game... Big time !

   

                                                                                                              ~Ace~

  Hi Ace,

  Page 6 is where it was first brought up specifically here, and that was by WGT.  Since then it's been discussed as it was WGTs discreet, clear and unambiguous reason in any ordinary reading for the ban.

  I have no idea why anyone would want one either.  An inept player armed with one and say Kats calc might not look quite so inept in Alt Shot, but that's about the level of what they can do anyway.  

  He was accused of owning one substantially better than any currently discovered by mainstream science.  Assuming Q was holding such a beast it would be useful, I guess, to a ding only player.  

  Playing the game by dinging only I would think would be very effective.  Like you now I never even tried to ding all the time, but some do.  His -8 thru 9 at the "trial" showed he does not have to ding every, and that's about the only part of any of this we are not surprised at.

  The accusation of an auto dinger is simply absurd.  More chance of evolution being nonsense, with 50 million pieces all pointing one way, than the auto dinger accusation being more than made up myth.

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 8:12 PM

  Magpiesaregood:

  Hi AB

  Why shouldn't they explain (be it in a private message) why they ban a player? The way I see it, there is really only a few ways you can cheat, auto ding, CE or editing the code of the game. 

  I am not suggesting they provide details on how they determine this or what they use to detect these, but I do suggest they provide proof if they make the accusation (and ultimately the decision).

  But if they do have systems in place to "actually" monitor auto dinger's, CE or code editing, then why not say "you have been banned because we detected an auto dinger (called "abc") or CE or a code editing pack?

  Because it caused this long speculative thread

  Because giving the full reason makes it easy/easier for him or someone else to get around system next time

  Because if they give without a doubt proof inevitably you will have to show details also; proof is in details. Give name of program? Sounds like a very bad idea

  Not telling everyone why he got banned exactly does not decrease wgt's credibility. In fact very much the complete opposite in this case. You either have to give all the info (if you can do it without giving away methodology) or nothing at all.... 

  Less is definitely more

  EDIT: in reply to magpiesaregood latest response it seems you just don't understand me. No problem... Let me try to clear it up.

  All I'm trying to say is that I think it would have been in their best interest to avoid giving exact reason. Say they didn't give any specific info as to why he was banned... that would have meant much less material to argue over in a forum. Giving off a more professional appearence whether the reason was unsubstantiated or just to reduce chaos around the incident. If that email wasn't posted on here I doubt we would be at page 27. But if he is innocent, this might have saved him.

   

• Duckster789 534 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 8:23 PM

  Check out Jimbog's post in this thread (page 5) why someone would want an auto dinger.

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/252537.aspx?PageIndex=5

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 8:39 PM

  AB, since we're all speculating, let me ask you (and anyone else who cares to respond) this:

  Ruling out multis and black market credit sellers, we're left with three ways to cheat that I'm aware of...auto dinger, CE (which I thought was an auto dinger, correct me if I've misunderstood what it does) and packet editing.

  My question is, what's left to consider?  Also, why did they directly ask him about using an auto dinger?  Seems that was their sole gripe with him, which is why the talk of "There must be something else" makes little sense to me.  No one has yet produced any inkling of what this "something else" might be.

  Further, and I only mention this because no one has brought it up, and all are speculating, is it possible one or two (or more, who knows?) disgruntled players who lost credits to him in MPC and/or skins filed complaints, claimed he must be cheating, and wgt responded with the auto-ding accusation and kangaroo trial?

  I don't want to think that's the case, but as stated above, the number of ways to cheat is limited and in this particular case I think we can rule out all of them on the face of it except auto-dinger, and the case for that rests on shaky ground.

  As Mr. Holmes (not Johnny, the other one) said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

  edit:  I just googled CE (Cheat Engine) and looks like it's in the same vein as a packet editor, altering game parameters.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 8:58 PM

  mkg335:

  Ruling out multis and black market credit sellers, we're left with three ways to cheat that I'm aware of...auto dinger, CE (which I thought was an auto dinger, correct me if I've misunderstood what it does) and packet editing.

  CE varies from Mr. Otto in that you get to choose where on the line you hit.  E.G. a slight miss is as easy as a ding, and Otto can't do much well anyway.......Seems the consensus.  The direct accusation of using an auto dinger is thus an intentional lie or uninformed rubbish.  

  Remember he was actually accused of sporting a new Otto the known world is currently oblivious to.  

  Had he confessed to that crime perhaps they would have carried on speaking - That draws comparisons more with the inquisition than it looks a good way to read out the "sentencing" after the "trial" , IMO.

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 9:05 PM

  mkg335:

  AB, since we're all speculating, let me ask you (and anyone else who cares to respond) this:

  auto dinger, CE (which I thought was an auto dinger, correct me if I've misunderstood what it does) and packet editing.

  My question is, what's left to consider?  Also, why did they directly ask him about using an auto dinger? 

  Further, and I only mention this because no one has brought it up, and all are speculating, is it possible one or two (or more, who knows?) disgruntled players who lost credits to him in MPC and/or skins filed complaints, claimed he must be cheating, and wgt responded with the auto-ding accusation and kangaroo trial?

  1. I'm not saying there is anything left to consider (not sure what ce is) I have heard there is a program out that basically slows meter to a halt based on hot keys. Basically you have a regular speed meter, you press hot key, it crawls pixel by pixel until it hovers over ding, then they just click on it or click early/late.

  But that is besides the point now, at least the point I was trying to get at. We just don't know how much they know; if they're basing this on knowing a players static ding percentage, seperate ding % on tee shots to approach shots to putting, if it's a program or if they can detect other cheats, or what. We're going by one email sent by someone that we have no idea whether is competent or not, knows everything or not.

  2. Why did they ask him about auto ding? Thought they told him to tell them what program? No idea

  EDIT: thanks Jim. I would say then for sure they don't know what program, but based on his ding percentage or seperate ding percentages (the point I made in 2nd paragraph) they were very sure he was using one.

  3. Maybe it's possible, I'm sure most of the top players have had complaints against them at some point before, so I don't believe that's a relevency on this topic. But maybe considering how dominant he was

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sun, Jul 24 2016 9:21 PM

  AgentBrown123:

  2. Why did they ask him about auto ding? Thought they told him to tell them what program? No idea

  Just on that point and out of courtesy to you - refer page 6 (my post there).