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CC Event #50

• arleen9190 33 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 10:21 AM

  WELL SAID!!!

• bikinigirl24 313 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 10:53 AM

  ?

   I am a legend who automatically gets tournament 12 greens so Why in the clashes  do I get fast and very fast greens doesn't really seem fair since I practice on tournament 12 greens and very very rarely play anything slower than them 

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 1:37 PM

  Your editorializing of my comments is very interesting.  You refer to me saying  "I don't care."  I never said that.  The closest thing to that I said was:

  "If you Georgian members enjoy the clashes, keep playing them. I don't have a problem with that."  Hardly the same thing.

  Secondly and a minor point, I wrote 4 paragraphs, not 3.  And yes, above a certain level every CC CAN have 250 members.  That's not the same saying they do have 250 members.  Some clubs screen out people and don't accept just anyone.  Some clubs prefer to remain small.  You also make a claim that 

  "90% of clubs on the leaderboard" have 250 members.

  How did you arrive at that figure?  Did you look at all of the clubs on the leaderboard and check? The leaderboard shows the top 200 clubs, not every CC that participates.   I think your statement is a huge generalization that you haven't provided the facts to back up.

  You never addressed the points I made about fairness, or rather the lack of fairness of pitting 250 member clubs against much smaller clubs.  Or the fact that skill really doesn't figure into the clashes as currently played.  

  Or even admit that with no limit on CC passes, it gives a larger club an inherent advantage that can't be overcome by a smaller club, simply due to the numbers.  Some of your members admit that CC passes are bought as needed, hence some calling it an auction that everyone who competes has to pay their bid, but only the top bid wins.

  It seems to me you (personally) are overly sensitive to my comments, and had to resort to misquoting me in an attempt to discredit my position.  If you had facts to dispute me you would have provided them instead.  At least you didn't resort to personal attacks, and you will notice I haven't done that either.

  I stand by the points I've raised, and ask that in the future you you please quote me exactly, and within the context of what I have to say.  Do not put words in the forum I never said.  Also if you choose to refute what i have said please provide facts to back up your position.

  Now you have a bit less than 8 1/2 hours left before your CCs latest "Quest for the Golden Putter" ends, so enjoy it and play as many rounds as you like.

  phred952

• trix3387 81 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 2:00 PM

  phred952:

  Your editorializing of my comments is very interesting.  You refer to me saying  "I don't care."  I never said that.  The closest thing to that I said was:

  "If you Georgian members enjoy the clashes, keep playing them. I don't have a problem with that."  Hardly the same thing.

  Secondly and a minor point, I wrote 4 paragraphs, not 3.  And yes, above a certain level every CC CAN have 250 members.  That's not the same saying they do have 250 members.  Some clubs screen out people and don't accept just anyone.  Some clubs prefer to remain small.  You also make a claim that 

  "90% of clubs on the leaderboard" have 250 members.

  How did you arrive at that figure?  Did you look at all of the clubs on the leaderboard and check? The leaderboard shows the top 200 clubs, not every CC that participates.   I think your statement is a huge generalization that you haven't provided the facts to back up.

  You never addressed the points I made about fairness, or rather the lack of fairness of pitting 250 member clubs against much smaller clubs.  Or the fact that skill really doesn't figure into the clashes as currently played.  

  Or even admit that with no limit on CC passes, it gives a larger club an inherent advantage that can't be overcome by a smaller club, simply due to the numbers.  Some of your members admit that CC passes are bought as needed, hence some calling it an auction that everyone who competes has to pay their bid, but only the top bid wins.

  It seems to me you (personally) are overly sensitive to my comments, and had to resort to misquoting me in an attempt to discredit my position.  If you had facts to dispute me you would have provided them instead.  At least you didn't resort to personal attacks, and you will notice I haven't done that either.

  I stand by the points I've raised, and ask that in the future you you please quote me exactly, and within the context of what I have to say.  Do not put words in the forum I never said.  Also if you choose to refute what i have said please provide facts to back up your position.

  Now you have a bit less than 8 1/2 hours left before your CCs latest "Quest for the Golden Putter" ends, so enjoy it and play as many rounds as you like.

  phred952

  Lol tell me another long speech about how you have a life, which is why you and other clubs don't bother to put any effort into using free passes and how it's sad that The Georgian does. 

   

  Yes skill also also plays a part, seeing as how a great round gets double the points of a mediocre one. In my example of 113k+ team points, it was based on a mediocre -2 round that nets 59 points for everyone with just the free passes. You have people scoring -7 under and it gets close to 100 points/round which brings the team total up significantly from my conservative estimate.

  Just take a gander at the leaderboard. The majority up there have the same # of members as TG. The fact that there are others up there with <100 members show that it's not a hinderance to have fewer members. All it takes is simply playing with the free passes WGT gives every 4 hours. 

  It's a competition for the best club point total. It is totally equitable in format. The difference is basic effort.

  And it's not just you, I find it funny that there is a 9 page thread of people saying "they don't care" and "it's a rigged farce" when the numbers show that a basic effort of all club members can win any given week.

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 10:02 PM

  Paul,

  With all due respect, we will have to agree to disagree.  I do appreciate that you didn't quote me out of context, unlike the person that I directed my reply.

  You mention Bad Moon Rising finishing third.  That's a great accomplishment, considering the size of their CC. How many free passes did they get and how many more passes did they have to buy to do that?  You know they didn't get as many free passes as The Georgian receives.  Inequity is built into the structure of the clashes by WGT.

  My biggest problem is and has always been that the playing field is not level due to the different sizes of the CC's playing each other.  But nobody who supports The Georgian or the clashes wants to talk about that aspect of things.  It's a built-in unfairness of each clash, creating a playing field that's not level simply by the member numbers.

  Can they be proud that they organize their members to play?  Sure that's something they do a fine job with.  But in the post above I was not "giving the Georgian a hard time"  My remarks as shown below:

  "Then you come up with the same old useless platitudes so you can feel good about your accomplishments"

  were aimed at the person I directed my reply at, a specific person, not the whole CC membership.  

  As was the comment about taking pride in being #1, with what followed it, but I will admit that was not clearly spelled out.  So my fault for not saying that in a way that my intent could be clearly understood by everyone.

  Paul, with all due respect, even you didn't address my questions about the inequity of the clashes as currently structured in your reply above.

  So I would ask you to do a few things:  

  One is answer the questions I and others have brought up about the problems with how the clashes are structured and explain how they are fair to every CC, regardless of membership size.  

  Two is tell me what The Georgian has to be proud of, besides their ability to organize for a clash competition every two weeks, and the willingness of some of their members to spend any amount needed on CC passes to win each clash.  In effect creating a win at any cost mentality.

  Three is the last minute recruiting that goes on just before a clash, and how space is made to do that.  While not prohibited by WGT rules, it certainly seems questionable to many.  Is that fair play to the other CCs and fair to a member who might be removed just to make a space for a ringer?

  So I ask you to prove to me I am wrong in my theory as to how they approach and play the clashes.  And answer the questions I've posed to you above.

  Are you game?

  Jeff

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 11:18 PM

  1.  As soon as you can buy a pass to allow a win it's way past arguing the thing has any skill worth contemplating.

  2.  I do think there is an argument to more evenly match the size of CCs if only to see how much of a market there really is for that (edit: talking more as if I were WGT marketing that is).  

  3.  Trouble is wherever you take the thing it's always going to be lipstick on a pig.............Way most would see it anyway.

  Most think it is beyond ridiculous. See 1 above, and that's only the headline.  

  Some that disagree and look on it as something to bother with also great.

   If anyone thinks the clash will ever get any respect remotely (as in half of one smidge remote) ever comparable to say the VUSO or Forum World Cup (to name but two) they are barking, IMNSHO:)

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Sat, Jul 8 2017 12:53 PM

  @trix3387

  Your obnoxious generalization and observations are interesting.  You have no idea if I played in the last clash or not.  Or how many passes I used. Yet you pile on me about "not putting in any effort".

  Your unwillingness to admit to any of the built-in unfairness of the clashes is very telling.  I'm done explaining my point of view to you with your closed mind.

  So you enjoy and keep drinking the kool-aid.