Forums

Help › Forums

Are Open high winds Fair

Sun, Jul 10 2011 9:57 PM (63 replies)
  • birdwell
    561 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:44 AM

    Having all the holes be exactly the same wind per hole for each player is just as unrealistic as the random wind speeds we have now.

     

    In any given real golf tourney, The guys that tee off early morning can possibly face very different conditions from the guys that tee off in the afternoon. Winds do change, not often do they flop directions completely, but it is quite possible that you'd have a cross wind on one hole, then have it shift to a head or tail wind 5 hours later.

    Having a prevailing wind is a great idea for ALL single play tourneys, but have it be randomized within a range of X radians. And the speed varying by  a certain percentage also.

    Just make it more realistic.... who cares about making it 'fair'. :P

  • stevenharkin
    1,921 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 2:48 AM

    if it's not broke don't fix it!!

    we can complain all day about not getting tailwinds on par 5's and getting left to right crosswinds when the pin is stuck 8ft from the left off the green but at the end of the day the best players will always rise to the top of the leaderboard, no matter what the conditions are...

    for me personally a headwind can be used to your advantage ..it is easier to get your approach close especially when playing lynx golf when the pin can be put in some tricky positions..

    i feel there's both pro's and con's for all types of winds , you just gotta try and deal whatever is thrown at you with different shot selections..punch, slice, hook whatever it takes  

    says me average joe :))

     

     

  • PRIESTESS
    10,721 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 3:10 AM

    I Give up!!lol..Steve the wind isnt the problem,The problem is that over 1 single round of high winds why should some players have easier winds than others when there is so much at stake,?,Why should your open be dictated by the wind you are given,,play a 29 wind behind into a par 3 championship greens then you will understand,:)

  • stevenharkin
    1,921 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 3:24 AM

    lol ok..i understand i have yet to play on championship greens with a gale blowing..maybe in 3 - 4 weeks il agree with all the moaners..for now i firmly believe the wind over 2 rounds will even itself out..maybe one or two shot swing at the max

  • SgtDoodles
    3,112 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 5:16 AM

    PRIESTESS:

    Again i have to ask the question,Is it fair that Player A can be hitting a 3 iron into a certain hole and player B  hits a PW,that's some difference isnt it,Thats what you will get at RSG with high winds,So my question is,,Is that fair? I don't putt well enough on Championship greens to worry about winning Opens ,I just dont think its fair,Is there another way of toughening the course up without high winds?

    Teflon green speeds?

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 5:25 AM

    genorb:

    OK we are saying the same thing, I didn't get what you meant when you said "If you prefer the wind the same for each hole", I thought you meant each hole of the course but you meant the same wind on a given hole for each player.

    I thought you didn't understand because of that part of your post

    chrisironsbones:

    It would become boaring, and repetative, and scores would become ridicilous because you could then memorise what shot was best for that hole because it will always be the same.  Where's the fun in that.

    The sequence of strength and wind direction would be random is the sense that when you go from 1 hole to the next one, the strength and direction are different, this sequence would be setted randomly at the start of each round by WGT and this sequence would be the same for everyone but a different sequence for each round.

     

    For each player taken separately, it makes no difference. The fact that you know that other players will have or not the same wind than you will not change your way of playing. But the result will more fair in my opinion. 

    I agree that if one plays a lot of rounds, because strength (in some interval) and direction are set randomly, then it should be fair but over two rounds that's clearly not true. You can easily get two rounds where wind is mainly headwind and another player will get mainly tailwind, this makes significative difference.

    Regards

     

    In the virtual open, my first round wind conditions was as tough as it could get for that particilar hole i.e 4 i got 17 mph left right, so i either would hit the tree by aiming left, or what i chose to do, land in rough.

    All the holes where you could easily birdie with tailwinds i got headwinds, i never really got any hole where i was approaching using a wedge often, always long irons, or the wind was blowing in directions which were hard to hit fairway.  I only managed even par (also with added deviations of club yardages not acting true lol)

    In my second round, i got FAVOURABLE winds, i birdied 6 holes by 8th, but as soon as i hit 8th, the wind seemed to pick up, it went from low 6mph to 17+mph.  It was like WGT had given me a chance to catch up with everyone after my poor first round.  Then my wind conditions stayed quit tough for back 9, where i only got 4 birdies + bogey.

    So what ever happens, things will even themselves out, i just can't beleive soome excellent players (better than me) are concerned about the wind???  It should be random, and random only. People would map out wind strengh and direction for others so If you knew it was going to be a tailwind for the par 3's, you would pack an extra wedge instead of your wood.  It might sound petty or what, but if you are good enough to be in the open you should be good enough to handle the conditions whatever they are.  Yes i do understand for example it would be easier on some holes having certain conditions but we should get on with it.

    But WGT should concentrate on sorting out consistantcy with the camera angles & wind direction first.  I've lost count of the shots thats messed up due to one camera angle shows 5 'clock wind, the other 3 o'clock, or one tailwind, the other easterly.  You don't know which camera angle to trust....Sorry forget this quote, this is what also adds a bit of realism to the game, its the uncertanty thats the challenge each shot.

  • tiffer67
    1,764 Posts
    Thu, Jun 30 2011 7:27 AM

    birdwell:

    In any given real golf tourney, The guys that tee off early morning can possibly face very different conditions from the guys that tee off in the afternoon. Winds do change, not often do they flop directions completely, but it is quite possible that you'd have a cross wind on one hole, then have it shift to a head or tail wind 5 hours later.

     

    This is very true particularly when it comes to the British Open. Many an early starter on day 1 has faced calm and dry conditions only then for the afternoon starters to face strong winds and rain. Many a player's tournament has been ruined by a cruel draw on the Thursday and Friday. When that happens the tournament suffers as many of the top players are missing come Saturday and Sunday.

    There is little can be done about that as man hasn't conquered controlling Mother Nature. In the virtual world however this can be done easily. I think some of the suggestions made by others in this thread would only enhance the tournaments were they adopted.

     

  • genorb
    1,255 Posts
    Sat, Jul 2 2011 4:10 PM

    chrisironsbones:

    i just can't beleive soome excellent players (better than me) are concerned about the wind???  ... It might sound petty or what, but if you are good enough to be in the open you should be good enough to handle the conditions whatever they are.  Yes i do understand for example it would be easier on some holes having certain conditions but we should get on with it.

    Hi Chris,

    I totally agree with you that the best players should handle any wind condition. Moreover, personally, I do not really care, if I post a bad score because the wind was tough, then no problem, I am just telling to myself that I will do better next time (it's just a game).

    But I think that the original point raised by Tess, and which makes sense to me, was not about getting good wind condition on particular holes (like headwind on par 3 or tailwind on par 5) but to have fair conditions, namely same conditions for all. Even with the worse wind condition on each hole, but the same bad conditions for all, it's more fair than random condition (only really true for heavy wind on St-andrews or St-georges, heavy wind on other courses are still OK). With 30mph headwind, you will drive around 250 yds while with 30mph tailwind you will drive around 350 yds. This make a difference of roughly 100 yds, which is quite huge. On some par 4, with 30 mph headwind, you cannot reach the green in two shots. So for these extreme cases it's not even a question to handle well or not the wind, if you cannot reach the green on regulation, you can only hope for lucky birdie on approach shot (which looks more like an eagle than a birdie).

    As you pointed out also, things can even themselves out from 1 round to the next one. And this will be true for a large number of players. But if the wind is really random, the probability to have bad wind over two rounds is not that weak and of the same order than the probability to get good wind over two rounds. This is why over the 200 players playing the Open, a significant number of them will probably get bad wind while another significant number of them will get good wind (the rest (majority) will have average wind, not really bad, not really good over the two rounds).

    Regards

  • ForrestLeigh
    264 Posts
    Tue, Jul 5 2011 7:13 AM

    Do random winds actually even themselves out though? Posts have mentioned the VEM which can throw a curveball into the game if you're doing well.  And as you move up the tiers you're perceived to be doing better at the game.  So, I ask you this, as Legends, or TM's do you get favourable winds 50% of the time you play, think about 9&10 at St Andys, driveable greens with a favourable wind, the par 5's the 17th - do you get favourable winds 50% of your rounds, or are you now expecting a headwind?

    Or if you are doing well as Chris has posted, does this happen to you

    chrisironsbones:

    in my second round, i got FAVOURABLE winds, i birdied 6 holes by 8th, but as soon as i hit 8th, the wind seemed to pick up, it went from low 6mph to 17+mph.  It was like WGT had given me a chance to catch up with everyone after my poor first round.  Then my wind conditions stayed quit tough for back 9, where i only got 4 birdies + bogey

  • PRIESTESS
    10,721 Posts
    Tue, Jul 5 2011 8:19 AM

    This topic was about fairness not the ability to handle high wind conditions,I say again.

    Do you think that 1 high wind round is fair,considering players will get wind varying 4 to 8 shots harder than another player,I certainly dont think it is,Why should i play a par 5 with a 29 wind at 8 o clock,when the next player to tee off which could be seconds gets a more favourable wind,,Like Bogeybuster said,Over 4 rounds this would level itself out but not 1 high wind round,

RSS