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Clash... Time for a change

• rjteeithi 686 Posts

  Thu, Jul 11 2019 3:28 PM

  jimreser:

  High wind speed is very unfair.  Not because wind is not part of the game but because it is random here in WGT land.

   

  2 players playing at the same time get completely different wind conditions....WGT has random wind settings

  If WGT could make the wind the same for everyone during the same event then fine make wind speeds anything but if they cannot then winds should be minimal 

  TRUE!

  Plus, when the winds are 20-30 mph, they dont play true. How to aim with a 30 mph cross wind? take it way out over the water, so WGT can suck your ball into the lake when just out of our lack of skill? or WGT need for cash we misjudge the tornado we are playing in

  what a $$$ grab!

• Cleworthy 3,468 Posts

  Thu, Jul 11 2019 5:03 PM

  The Clash prize structure does leave a lot to be desired, no argument there. In our club Clash play is completely optional for that reason. Nonetheless quite a number of us in the club do play just for the competition against other clubs and as something different to do in the game. We never require people to purchase club passes to play either. No stress, no issues no big deal. We usually score high enough for prizes and sometimes win custom tee markers and flags. Whoop-de-freakin-doo. We are Friendly golf cc.

• Luckystar5 1,641 Posts

  Thu, Jul 11 2019 9:26 PM

  @Hack, calculating participation doesn't have to come from wgt. It's right under your nose. Tomorrow after the clash is over, pick a placing, like 25th on leaderboard, write down the conditions, and the number of points that it took to finish in 25th place. Do that for a couple months, you will see a major difference in points for that position, between average conditions, and severe conditions. It takes less points to attain that placing under severe conditions than it does under average conditions. That tells you less people play in the garbage conditions, than average. So, bottom line is, less participation. I have followed it for months.

• Jill1989 79 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 6:21 AM

  Funny, was just thinking this morning i wished I had taken some screenshots of the previous few clash events to see if clashes as a whole were trending up or down.  Not, though, based solely on course conditions.  To look at it that way is a very good idea, I just never thought of.

  So...if you charted the last few months of clashes together is the trend up or down?  If you compared events with similar conditions are those events scoring more points today or yesterday?  Or vice versa?  And is the trend the same for all types, i.e. easy, medium and hard?  That would, of course, tell you if events as a whole are trending up or down or all over the map with no rhyme or reason. 

  Personally, I think they're trending down...if I look at my own club's performance.  We have fewer involved today than yesterday, yet we're still moving up the leaderboard.  On this clash in particular, but noticed in the last 2 clashes as well, our club involvement is at an all time low, yet we're undefeated and in the top 100.  And we've played the max number of clashes a club can play.   

• rjteeithi 686 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 8:37 AM

  Luckystar5:

  @Hack, calculating participation doesn't have to come from wgt. It's right under your nose. Tomorrow after the clash is over, pick a placing, like 25th on leaderboard, write down the conditions, and the number of points that it took to finish in 25th place. Do that for a couple months, you will see a major difference in points for that position, between average conditions, and severe conditions. It takes less points to attain that placing under severe conditions than it does under average conditions. That tells you less people play in the garbage conditions, than average. So, bottom line is, less participation. I have followed it for months.

  I like the way you think!

• Luckystar5 1,641 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 9:39 AM

  Jill1989:

  Funny, was just thinking this morning i wished I had taken some screenshots of the previous few clash events to see if clashes as a whole were trending up or down.  Not, though, based solely on course conditions.  To look at it that way is a very good idea, I just never thought of.

  So...if you charted the last few months of clashes together is the trend up or down?  If you compared events with similar conditions are those events scoring more points today or yesterday?  Or vice versa?  And is the trend the same for all types, i.e. easy, medium and hard?  That would, of course, tell you if events as a whole are trending up or down or all over the map with no rhyme or reason. 

  Personally, I think they're trending down...if I look at my own club's performance.  We have fewer involved today than yesterday, yet we're still moving up the leaderboard.  On this clash in particular, but noticed in the last 2 clashes as well, our club involvement is at an all time low, yet we're undefeated and in the top 100.  And we've played the max number of clashes a club can play.   

  Yes, have you noticed that every other clash is either easier, or a bear? Last clash we had 9 speed greens, moderate winds, the numbers per club were significantly higher, so either more are playing, or a lot of people were playing more rounds. Either way participation was up. I know in our club, the lower tiers played a lot more 2 weeks ago, than they are now. So if just a few don't play as much, then participation is down, multiply that many in ur club alone, times all the other clubs, it would amount to quite a few, monies lost by wgt.

• AlaskanDame 19,552 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 10:06 AM

  Luckystar5:

  . I know in our club, the lower tiers played a lot more 2 weeks ago, than they are now. So if just a few don't play as much, then participation is down, multiply that many in ur club alone, times all the other clubs, it would amount to quite a few, monies lost by wgt.

  Totally agree with this.
  
  Not sure I agree though that taking fewer points to reach the same place on the leaderboard means overall participation is down. When fewer birdies and eagles are scored, then fewer points are awarded, esp. lower top ten multipliers. (e.g., 120 x 10 on a tough course = 1200, where as on an easier course 200 x 10 = 2000 --- and on down the top ten). When all clubs have tough time, won't the leaderboard shift accordingly to lower points all down the spectrum to achieve placement (i.e., top 10, top 50, top 100)?

• Luckystar5 1,641 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 12:48 PM

  AlaskanDame:

  Luckystar5:

  . I know in our club, the lower tiers played a lot more 2 weeks ago, than they are now. So if just a few don't play as much, then participation is down, multiply that many in ur club alone, times all the other clubs, it would amount to quite a few, monies lost by wgt.

  Totally agree with this.
  
  Not sure I agree though that taking fewer points to reach the same place on the leaderboard means overall participation is down. When fewer birdies and eagles are scored, then fewer points are awarded, esp. lower top ten multipliers. (e.g., 120 x 10 on a tough course = 1200, where as on an easier course 200 x 10 = 2000 --- and on down the top ten). When all clubs have tough time, won't the leaderboard shift accordingly to lower points all down the spectrum to achieve placement (i.e., top 10, top 50, top 100)?

  To a certain point, yes what you say plays into it, but there are the lower tiers that normally might play that dont, that plays into it also. I have been working with a couple of other clubs, and between us we have come up with a conclusion, that in order to attain the same point level, for a designated placing on the leaderboard, we would have to play a little over 13 clashs, to reach that same point total. Take just 30 players, that say would average 40 points when they play, one free pass would be 1200 points then use maybe 7 clashs out of 11, that's 8400 points, if they don't play, that's what u lose. Take that 8400 points and add it to your total under nasty conditions, and point total comes back up. Some lower tiers play more than that, but not under nasty conditions. If every club had just 5, players not playing due to the conditions, times how many clubs that play the clashs, participation is down. Easier conditions, these same players will play more than their free pass, participation is up, so is the point standings. I've also kept track of stronger clubs when they play against us, and when conditions are easier, the number of players against us is higher, than under these types of conditions. Again, participants are down.

• Nancy1959 7,295 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 7:51 PM

  It has always been surprising to me that WGT doesn't know this or have a pulse on the majority of the people who play this game.

  Playing in 30 mph winds at courses like Chambers Bay, RSG, and St. Andrews isn't at all fun for most people, including me.  As a result, they make a lot less money because so many less CC passes are purchased, less balls are used, etc.

  It is obvious, even to the most casual observer.  And the lame prizes they give out, yes we have all read about that for years and still no changes, even though a change in this would make them more money.

  I don't know why they don't hire me, because I could make them a lot more $$$, LOL!

• Trailrunning 152 Posts

  Fri, Jul 12 2019 9:57 PM

  I totally agree that the clashes are lame and not much fun anymore, especially when they throw 30mph winds at you through the entire event. I usually play in them just for the competition and to help my club out, but it is getting harder and harder to justify the time and expense on it. The lame prizes that WGT give out for it, make it appear to be nothing more than a revenue generating scam and I am very close to being done with it. I played several games in the current clash and did not enjoy it because of the constant high wind, it was just a chore trying to get through each game. 

  Trailrunning