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Terrible, Terrible Gameplay

• MioKontic 4,654 Posts

  Fri, Dec 31 2021 2:11 PM

  The reason for the huge inconsistencies the OP is talking about is because he is playing with starter balls.  I play all my coin games (just to get the apparel I need, after which I will say good riddence to coin games for good!), except for showdowns, with starter balls, and i've seen my ball land +10 to -30 yards long/short of the distance I'm actually hitting.  When hitting 185yds into a 6-8 wind I wouldn't expect the ball to only go 160yds, but it does... sometimes!  Go to a decent ball and the inconsistencies are still there, but much less.

  I have also seen shots with 20+ mph tailwinds land short of the distance hit rather than going some yards past.  It has been suggested that the tailwind knocks the ball down, but 1) it doesn't happen consistently, and 2) I am 100% certain the software is not that clever (or should I say, the software writers aren't that clever!).

  The simple answer is, spend credits to buy balls for more consistency (just as WGT want you to do), or continue to play with starter balls and WGT will do all they can to make it difficult for you.  That said, once you get used to the inconsistencies you can 'adapt' to some degree, you just need to be a good putter from distance.

  And finally, why make the maths perfect???  Why is everyone hell bent on birdie'ing or eagle'ing every hole???  That's not golf and never will be!

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Fri, Dec 31 2021 4:13 PM

  HamdenPro:

  As many courses, irl, measure the distance to center of green, and others measure to front of green, is it possible that WGT distances are to center?

  On all shots except (partly) from the tees on Par4s and Par5s, the distances are straight to the pin, as the crow flies.

  Par3s excepted, just take the tee distances as "scorecard" aka immaterial and adjust at the second shot.

• pmm711 5,708 Posts

  Fri, Dec 31 2021 6:02 PM

  SamSpayed:

  Infinitebaffle:

  The math does not add up on many of the holes on this game. Some holes, in most of the courses,  have +15 - +20 yards on approach. Time to fix the math guys.

  If I can make a suggestion... ALWAYS make sure you place your aimer directly on the pin and look at the aimer box to confirm the exact distance.  Sometimes WGT will put your aimer box at a different distance by default.  This happens a lot, for example, when you're hitting a 3 wood for your approach or tee shot.  

  +1

  That's definitely the way to get the "true distance".

• Infinitebaffle 26 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 6:00 AM

     OK, so I have read most of the responses, and although the title of the post seems harsh, this is my perception on the subject of numbers and accuracy within this game. Some of you, especially the Devs, will not like this. WGT is the leading "Golf Simulator" in the World (In my opinion). I have played the other "Golf" games, and they are not even close to the accuracy of play experience within WGT. For those who say this is not the virtual representation of the physical game of "Golf", this statement can be misleading. Golf is in the name of this game.

     So, if we can agree that WGT is a golf simulator, being a simulator is only as good as it's accuracy. Physical golf players do not experience the anomalies mentioned in my original post. There are aircraft simulator/games that are used to train pilots, and count as flight hours. WGT have created the variables that make this game difficult for beginners and experienced players. You have left the numbers off of the swing meter, that is a variable chance to be accurate in its own right, the introduction of wind and elevation variables with no math explanation.

     All I am saying is that as a simulator, the accuracy falls short on many holes. There are quite a few more courses on this game than there was 5 years ago, and the course count will probably continue to grow. I don't think players (even the experienced players will be holing more shots if the accuracy were increased on the holes that are off. I play tour masters and legends in the lowest tiers of head to head, and sometimes we all suck at game play. I would love to see this game increase it's overall accuracy with wind/distance/elevation. It would be the greatest golf simulator ever! Thanks for listening to my rants.

• HamdenPro 2,486 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 7:19 AM

  Infinitebaffle:

  All I am saying is that as a simulator, the accuracy falls short on many hole

  Infinitebaffle:

  I would love to see this game increase it's overall accuracy with wind/distance/elevation. It would be the greatest golf simulator ever!

  Consider that, possibly, the inaccuracies are not inaccurate at all. WGT uses algorithms to simulate game play, the swing, flight of ball, etc...

  SgtBilko explains it best, in a thread rom 2012 - Understanding Wind, Precision & Forgiveness - World Golf Tour (wgt.com), when he states:

  " Have you ever wondered why is it that your shot can be dead on pin on one shot and other times completely off?  It's because the game is designed that way! Golfing on WGT is based upon mathematical algorithms that create everything from the shot to the ball roll out when it hits. Unlike real golf, mathematical algorithms have no variances. To create these variances WGT has employed such things as VEM, precision and forgiveness into the model to simulate or re-create those effects that every real golfer knows all too well that affect their shots"

  Is it not possible that the strange effects of the wind on certain WC par 3s, on PB, etc.., and why some holes play longer, or shorter, than the distances shown on the score card, are intentional?  Is it not possible that WGT has simulated the differences experienced on certain courses, or holes, to the known wind tunnel effects, or density of air at certain elevations? I would imagine a ball, hit with the same force, will fly farther, or shorter, depending on whether you are playing on Wolf Creek as opposed to Beth Page.

  If this is true, then WGT would be, and is, the greatest golf simulator game ever!!

  We all know that par 3 on Torrey with a drop in elevation (from the way backs) is 38' but has to be played as a 68' drop. If this hole played differently every now and then, sometimes 38', other times 68' or 20', that would suggest inaccuracies, which is not the case. The hole always has a 68' elevation drop despite what the aimer tells us. You can rely on that which makes it pretty accurate.

  IMO, WGT is not the one that has to "increase its overall accuracy", it's the user.

   

  EDIT-AFTERTHOUGHT- early on, during this 'pandemic', when the PGA and LPGA tour was suspended, WGT held some live streaming matches pitting PGA and LPGA pros against each other. It was very entertaining to watch them play and BS with each other during the match. One thing that struck me, two LPGA players were playing a match on Pinehurst, one being from the area and knew the course well, the other had only played it a few times on the tour. Both were blown away as to how accurate the course played. As a result, one had an obvious advantage over the other.

• HenryKawa 1,725 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 7:47 AM

  alosso:

  Infinitebaffle:

  Some holes, in most of the courses,  have +15 - +20 yards on approach. Time to fix the math guys.

  It's rather time to adjust your expectations.

  On real golf courses, you have the design lengths printed on the scorecard, but there's only a rare chance that the length of the track from tee to pin matches this exactly - same here. On STA, RSG, KIA and others, one pin is exactly at the scorecard length shown on the tee (the other obviously isn't), but there are different concepts between older and newer (in WGT terms) courses, including the hole lenghts of certain USO days, and a few errors.

  For instance, note that the Legend tee on BPB #15 is shorter than the Master tee - because this was set in one USO round of 2009.

  Also, PIN #4 has the length of a Par5 from 2005 but is designated a Par4 like in 2014 - difficult to reach in regulation.

  My favourite flaw is OLY #2, where the scorecard distances (at least from Legend tee) do not reach the green ;)

  Let the bells ring out and banners fly.  Feast your eyes on me.  Its too good to be true buy I'm here. I'm really here.

  I know its amazing to see the one and only Henry Kawa return to the forums.  
  
  I am here to help.   As usual.

  For those who don't know me.. I'm the most respected veteran of WGT.  I've seen and done it all and I know everything.  So you have questions, I'm the one to ask.

• HamdenPro 2,486 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 8:33 AM

  HenryKawa:

  I'm the most respected veteran of WGT.  I've seen and done it all and I know everything.

  Are you sure you are in the right thread?  You may be looking for The Last Word where, I am sure, you can reach a much larger audience.

• Robert1893 7,721 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 9:10 AM

  Infinitebaffle:

    So, if we can agree that WGT is a golf simulator, being a simulator is only as good as it's accuracy

  I quote only this part because I view this as the major premise of your posts. 

  I disagree with this premise. I believe a better way of viewing the quality of the program is its consistency rather than its perceived accuracy across all courses and holes. 

  Accuracy is (in part) a function of how the player views the metric as well as how the player actually plays the hole. Additionally, I think it is also incorrect to state that "Physical golf players do not experience the anomalies mentioned in my original post." They do. It's not unusual to see players look at a shot they just made and have the look on their face of "what the heck just happened there?"

  While accuracy is important, what is more important is consistency of play. As other players have noted, some holes play longer and some play shorter. Additionally, the effects of elevation (plus or minus) differ on some holes. One just needs to learn those differences. As callaghan159 noted: "Do what I do and keep notes on holes that play long or short. Easy peasey."
  
  He's  correct.

  It's less important that a single hole plays like other holes on different courses than that single hole plays basically the same each time it is played. That's consistency. And to a large extent, WGT is very consistent in how each hole plays every time. If that were not the case, one would not see players being able to consistently shoot in the 50s.

  Apologies for the length of the post.

  tl;dr: It's not accuracy that's the most important metric. It's consistency. WGT is consistent in how it plays. 

• HamdenPro 2,486 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 9:36 AM

  Robert1893:

  I believe a better way of viewing the quality of the program is its consistency rather than its perceived accuracy across all courses and holes. 

  Robert1893:

  It's less important that a single hole plays like other holes on different courses than that single hole plays basically the same each time it is played. That's consistency.

  Agreed 100%, That is exactly what I was trying to say but you said so much more clearly.

• HenryKawa 1,725 Posts

  Sun, Jan 2 2022 6:51 PM

  HamdenPro:

  HenryKawa:

  I'm the most respected veteran of WGT.  I've seen and done it all and I know everything.

  Are you sure you are in the right thread?  You may be looking for The Last Word where, I am sure, you can reach a much larger audience.

  No.. I think I'm okay here.  Anywhere I can be of great service to anyone else, that is where I belong.  Remember - "THEY" say I am the smartest and greatest person in WGT History.