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Flop Shot Aim is Restricted in Reverse View

• PugsAce 1,825 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:07 AM

  When I use the Flop to get out of bunkers or rough around the greens, I like to setup the shot in "reverse mode"(zoom). I most often choose the "chip" or "pitch" shot, then reverse it to get a "zoomed-in" view of the green around the hole because it's easier to aim more accurately that way. With the flop shot zoom, it's very hard to see the individual 2foot square blocks to use them with the aiming tool. The problem I have when aiming in the chip reverse view comes when either the wind or distance necessitates my aiming farther than 8ft left of the cup. There simply isn't enough room in the view on the screen to move the aiming tool farther than that. I'd like to be able to accurately aim, using the tool, as much as 12-14ft left of the cup, in a timely manner. Switching between views is OK during single-play, but when the timer is ticking and others are waiting for my shot, it sometimes takes longer than I'd like it to. The blocks on the green in the flop shot zoom view are very small and hard to use to adjust aim. I checked the "player suggestion list thread" and didn't see this mentioned, hence this post. Would it be possible to tweak either the flop shot zoom view, or the chip shot reverse view, so that better/easier/quicker aiming is facilitated for the flop shot? I'd be interested if other players have run into this limitation, and what you've done to work around it. thanks, PugAce

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 8:40 AM

  Pug-I switch to the putting view to get the green slopes and aim from there. Then switch back to your flop. Just be careful when doing this back and forth thing because the default  club changes.

   

  YJ

   

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 9:02 AM

  YankeeJim:

  Pug-I switch to the putting view to get the green slopes and aim from there. Then switch back to your flop. Just be careful when doing this back and forth thing because the default  club changes.

   

  The chip view and the putting view are exactly the same for those of us that keep their putting grid "off". I know that you are a grid "on" guy, so it makes sense for you to go with the putter as you don't have to be "holding" the marker to see the grid. With chip you don't have to worry about your club changing though, this is the only advantage.

  So either way their still isn't enough room to move the marker sometimes. Having several alternate views would help remedy this - and perhaps also help when laying up!

   

  I also set my Flops up in chip / reverse view. When I run out of room in the reverse view Pugs, I will often drag the marker towards my Avatar, which effectively increases the angle. (assuming that my guy isn't off screen, or that the camera angle is odd)

  Hard to explain I guess. If you play with the shot arc on, pay more attention to that, and not on the triangle in this situation.

• mefitz 372 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 9:37 AM

    Very good point/suggestion ! Using the flop shot, it should be Automatically set for a Reverse view rather than a Zoom, which is completely useless as you said. Also, as you said, the reverse view is restricted most of the time for the amount of adjustment needed. This has been one of those "nagging" things that I`ve never got around to posting about. I have no Idea how many different reverse/overhead views WGT has for each hole or what would be involved to change these to a wider angle view or a closer overhead for the flop shot but I`m sure it would be  A LOT of work/time involved. I think what it boils down to is adding camera view options, which Has been discussed before, so we can get a much better perspective of the terrain whether on the fairway or around the greens.

    The only thing I can think of to do, is to go to reverse(both time consuming and annoying, having to first switch to chip/pitch, and then switch back to flop) , scope out my shot(break, distance, elevation), and then "push" the marker forward/sideways until I`ve got the offset I want/need for the flop using the grid lines and ignoring the distance stated, having already set the distance in my head. This is probably what you do also. So what we need are those camera view options which imo should be right up there with pin placements or even higher on "the list" to solve this. I can`t think of any other way to solve this, but would be interested to hear any other suggestions considering the high percentage of times I use the flop shot.

    I say this should be high on "the list" because I visualize my shots rather than figure all the numbers out to a "nicety" which, imo, is what golf(real and virtual) really comes down to...Feel and Visualization. As it is now, I feel more than half blinded to most of the shots I take, which ruins a lot of confidence in my shots and really becomes an annoying distraction to the game. Just my 2 cents.

     Cheers

• PugsAce 1,825 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 9:48 AM

  birdwell:

  YankeeJim:

  Pug-I switch to the putting view to get the green slopes and aim from there. Then switch back to your flop. Just be careful when doing this back and forth thing because the default  club changes.

    

  ... I also set my Flops up in chip / reverse view. When I run out of room in the reverse view Pugs, I will often drag the marker towards my Avatar, which effectively increases the angle. (assuming that my guy isn't off screen, or that the camera angle is odd)

  Hard to explain I guess. If you play with the shot arc on, pay more attention to that, and not on the triangle in this situation.

  Thanks for the replies, guys.

  Bird, I don't understand the sections of your reply that I "bolded"... my avatar isn't on-screen while in reverse view... it's down inside the bunker most times... I don't understand...

  ... and I DO play with the shot arc enabled, but how does that come into play while setting-up a shot?

  ... sorry... I'm a little dense today.

  YJ, I'll try the putting reverse view next time... if it enables an aim farther from the cup... that'll do it! Especially on BPB 15!   :/

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 10:27 AM

   

  PugsAce:

  ... sorry... I'm a little dense today.

   

  No worries! Like I said very hard to explain, and I didn't do a good job... so I took some pictures. :)

  I find myself here a lot, as I go for it in 2 often, plus this flop is relativly easy to get close.

  ]

   

  This is actually where I usually aim this shot, but if I was trying to go more to the left (er.. right in rev.) I would be underneath the map, or off screen.

  So lets say we have a 22 mph wind blowing right to left (in rev.) and we do need to aim off the screen...

   

  

   

  By moving the aim marker Vertically (as if in an axis parallel to the stick) towards the direction of my avatar, I am effectively aiming off screen, even though my aim marker is on screen. Extend the aim arc in your imagination to  sense exactly where the triangle would land of screen.

   

  Hope that helps, or at least explains what I was trying to say.

   

  *edited for correctness and clarity (hopefully)

• PugsAce 1,825 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 10:57 AM

  Ohhhh! Pictures DO speak volumes, don't they! lol

  Thank you so much for going to the trouble to 'splain it to me!

  In the first pic, the aim is ~6ft left of pin... in the second, it looks to be ~18ft (estimating to where the arc-line would extend). I DO  understand now.

  This is great! Duhhhh! Why didn't I think of this! It'll take some re-doing of my "visualization" of the shots, but after some practise moving the arc around to a visualized "landing zone", this might help... in fact... I think it WILL help!

  Thanks Birdwell! I really appreciate the help!

  :^)

• mefitz 372 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 12:01 PM

    That`s exactly what I meant by " "Push" the marker forward/sideways" but visuals are always best. Thanks Birdwell.

• PugsAce 1,825 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 1:05 PM

  I just came from the #1 Weekly CTTH at BPB. On the second challenge hole, I'm using... yeah... you guessed it... a flop shot.

  Go there and check out the "pitch reverse view", then immediately switch to the "flop reverse view". Now THIS is what I'm talking about! The flop view is "panned out" a bit more than the pitch view, enabling a further left aiming point. It's STILL not panned back far enough, though, because I needed an extra 4 feet left because of the heavy wind.

  I tried the "birdwell technique" (lol), and it worked like this...... with the camera angle there (at that challenge hole), I moved the aiming triangle towards my avatar parallel to the flagstick while taking notice of the 2' boxes. Keeping the flagstick in the center of each box, I moved the aimer towards the avatar 1 box(2ft) for every 1 foot of distance I wanted to aim farther left of the hole.

  Worked like a charm! Remember the "3-4-5 rule" we learned in Geometry class way back when? Well... I don't either... but I think it has something to do with that... lol.

  But if WGT can change the flop view in the CTTH's..,. why can't they do it game-wide?

  Check it out. It's not the "normal" flop zoom you'd expect it to be.

  Thanks mefitz, for your input, as well... didn't see your post 'til after I came back with my last one. ;)

• mefitz 372 Posts

  Sat, Jan 2 2010 1:57 PM

    Pythagorean theorem, A squared + B squared= C squared, lol, I`m not sure it applies unless you know the acute angle of the flopshots trajectory, then you could figure how far to off-set the aiming marker.

    Anyway, I`m curious about the two foot squares you`ve referred to. Are they in fact 2ft.? Like I said, I aim mostly by feel, but it could be good to know.

    Also, WGT seems to have more photos than we usually see in game that would give us a better view and perspective. It`s "just" a matter of plugging them into the game for us to use and not for the short approach shots only.BB#14,18, and KI#18 come to mind among others. I hate trying to set an approach shot from a perpendicular view, it throws me off somehow!

    As I referred to earlier, it`s related to the different pin placements, in that WGT needs to plug these different photo angles into the game which, considering how much it seems to take getting new pin placements, this could take some time before it happens. Cheers.