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What a Joke this game is turning into

• jayjonbeach 689 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:41 PM

  nivlac:

  From WGT Help/FAQ:

  Precision: Defines generally how close to the aiming point the ball will land based on where you hit on the swing meter

  Forgiveness: Displays how much Distance and Precision the ball will lose if not hit perfectly

  I'm only gonna try to explain this once, so I really hope that some of you listen to this and actually take moment to think it through.

  Ding or no ding, the precision rating is involved in the final result of every single shot.  If you Rapture owners are going to play clubs that are rated with 2 of 10 precision then you can't possibly expect it to go where you want every time. That would be exactly the opposite of the definition of the word precision.  WIth a 2 of 10 rating (and based on personal experience) I'd venture to guess 60% is about as good as it's gonna get.  Roughly  6 out of 10 shots will go roughly where aimed, the other 4 will not.  You were told this when you bought your clubs, that's what the little dots in the graphics are for. Because you choose to ignore exactly what those little dots mean is not WGT's fault.  WGT is not ruining the game, the players are ignoring how the game was setup to play from the beginning and then complaining about it because it's not performing like every other golf game they've played before.  Lose your preconceptions about WGT and start over, otherwise you're never gonna figure out how to enjoy this game.

  VEM:  So...why are people upset about this again?  According to that thread, VEM affects you based on your skill.  Higher skill levels are affected a lot, lower skill levels not so much.  That means it is easier for you to beat someone who's consistently better than you.  That also means it is harder for me to beat you.  If we assume that VEM is real, then why are we complaining about the handicap system that so many people have been asking for?  Many people asked for a way to level the playing field, to make players like Bollox and Avatar reachable and beatable every once in a while.  Now there's a possibility that you got exactly what you wanted (and in a way that can't really be user-manipulated like scoring average can) and yet all I see are complaints and theories  I see players focusing on is how it might be affecting them and not how it might be affecting them relative to everyone else.

  We gotta use a little bit of common sense here fellas.  Drowning in conspiracy is not a good way to spend an afternoon.

   

  Excellent post Nivlac and good explaination of why crappy clubs have more deviation naturally. 

  -----------

  I'm still 100% against the VEM for the record. 

  If I beat someone in an upper tier or a much higher average, I'd rather it NOT be because he got he hosed by a bunch of random shots.  I'd want to beat someone fair and square and if that means I can't, then I can't thats too bad, back to the drawing board for me and much more practice, just like the real game.

  I know part of the VEM is to keep the game challenging so folks dont get bored, and by the looks of the patent docs, a big part, and that is a great psychological standpoint and knowing something about human behaviour, yeah I'd have to agree that in principle, its a good theory.

  However, the VEM in execution, is not.  Instead of randomizing the game, you can keep the difficulty level up by doing other more realistic things. 

  -  A 3 click meter for one (with overpower mode=more deviation if miss) this one change will really add tons of challenge. No more easy counting of avatar movements and measurements while taking your time, getting the distance right will be much trickier....

  - lie considerations, coming soon to a WGT course near you

  - occasional random wind gusts that affect ALL players the same

  Comparing real golf, these things above will keep the game the most realistic and the most challenging.  Having a random factor punishing better players more than beginners is just not realistic in anyway and not fair either, which is why so many people are against it. 

  (Before we get the I love randomness crowd jumping in, yes we know many dont care and many dont mind random factors, its probably a 60/40 split somewhere but those that do care, care a lot)  

  That's been my story and still is and I'm stickin' to it!  :) 

  p.s  a true handicap system would be nice if sandbagging could be curtailed....

• jbenny11 863 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:43 PM

  chippy, the simple fact of the matter is that you became master way before you were ready. i'm not hating on you, but what was the rush your stats are that of a "good" pro. i mean to have only 30 more birdies than bogeys pretty much sums up the problem here, play kia. is. a bunch shoot "some" low scores oops i'm a master. it is the demise of many a poor boys and i'm afraid you're one. now blame wgt because the game is to hard, you sir brought this on yourself. now the thing to do is figure out how to play with that tricky fast meter, it can be done just look around. hope it works out for you. JB

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 4:52 PM

  Niv, are suggesting we need to know what we are doing to play well?   uh.......hmmm..............

  Joey (0;\

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 5:12 PM

  With all due respect nivlac, I respect your decision to stand up for WGT. As a Rapture owner, I'll look past your patronization of me and other Rapture owners. I took into full consideration the "Dots" you speak of, that's why I chose the Raptures over the G10 irons. Four dots of forgiveness and two dots of precision. I also took into consideration the spin ratio the Raptures have coupled with a slower swing meter. For you to say 60% of Rapture owners have gotten as good as there going to get is a poor statement at best. 

  There was nothing wrong with the playability of the Rapture irons up to December 14th, 2009. Everything changed with these clubs after that update whether you are anyone wants to believe it or not. I would have never made master with these clubs under the current playing conditions, or any clubs for that matter. Are you saying that the G10 master, or preferred irons have no deviation in the game whatsoever?

  I myself am not blaming WGT for anything as you have suggested some have. I've accepted the game for what it's become. It's a whole new game now. No one told me anything when I bought my Rapture irons. I made a comparison as a pro player and believed I was buying the best irons, they where certainly the most expensive irons.

  I myself don't know anything about VEM and quite frankly I could careless. I do know that this game has changed in a way that has become frustrating.

   

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 6:14 PM

  I'm not standing up for or trying to patronize anyone, nor was I trying to single out Rapture owners specifically.  The complaints are usually from low precision club owners, I just used Raptures as an example.  I apologize if that was misleading. 

  But I am trying to point out the very reasonable interpretation for how Forgiveness and Precision actually work in this game based on nearly 2 years of experience gathered from playing it.  My hope is that folks can have at least a little better understanding of why stuff happens so they can enjoy the game more.  Low precision club owners often complain about deviations and then proceed to cite forgiveness as the reason they bought they low precision clubs.  High forgiveness just means the ball won't stray too far from where your meter strike and your club's precision rating calculated it will go. 

  Here's another way to explain it.  On any one shot let's assume the lack of precision drives the ball offline to the left by 7 yards on a ding.  If we could hit that exact same shot with the exact same precision loss for a second time and miss early by 3 pixels, we would see the high forgiveness factor kick in and the shot would be only 8 to 10 yards from where it was supposed to be.  If forgiveness was really low (4 of 10) and we could hit that same shot a 3rd time you might see that same exact miss land 12-15 yards from where it was supposed to be.

  Richard4168:

  Are you saying that the G10 master, or preferred irons have no deviation in the game whatsoever?

  No, I never mentioned or even implied that.  The G10 8 of 10 precision suggests deviations.  I play the G10 masters myself and they definitely deviate and often at the wrong time, but not nearly as often as Tour Starters do.

  As far as changes go, it's very possible something did change.  Some players were quite adept at playing Rapture clubs and perhaps WGT didn't intend for those clubs to be used in such an efficient manner.  WGT is well within the right to alter the parameters of the clubs if they so choose.  That's stated in the Terms & Conditions and is just another small part of why we're Beta testing.  They are most likely trying to find the right balance for all the club sets and skill levels.  When they see folks lighting it up with clubs that might not have been intended for that, it could provoke a tweak in the stats.

  While it's still in Beta you almost need to expect the game to change.  I've watched it change and evolve for a while now and it plays a whole lot differently than it did when I first started.

  Again, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, just trying to help folks really understand what's going on.

• chipshotcharlie 538 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 6:16 PM

  jbenny11:

  chippy, the simple fact of the matter is that you became master way before you were ready. i'm not hating on you, but what was the rush your stats are that of a "good" pro. i mean to have only 30 more birdies than bogeys pretty much sums up the problem here, play kia. is. a bunch shoot "some" low scores oops i'm a master. it is the demise of many a poor boys and i'm afraid you're one. now blame wgt because the game is to hard, you sir brought this on yourself. now the thing to do is figure out how to play with that tricky fast meter, it can be done just look around. hope it works out for you. JB

  What look at yours you cant play to your avrg as you match stats show you dont putt out on the last hole i do thats the diffrence i play ranked games where you have 10seconds to take your shot then post scores its fun but increases your bogey count ppl in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.I play off 5 in reality thats what enables me to be reasonable at this game.

• Thetruth67 158 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 6:34 PM

  Richard Maybe it's just me, but I find it odd that you think any club can be hit accurately by intentionally mishitting every shot. Think about it...if you are that accurate at mishitting the ball, you may as well ding it, right? WGT does not have the option to draw or fade so intentionally mishitting may aid in what you are looking to do but to expect that you will have the same results everytime on a mishit is the error in your game play.

• PRIESTESS 10,716 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 6:53 PM

  I Know its not the correct forum for this,,but im using tour pro starter irons and tour pro driver and my meter is great,,if i use my full force artillery rapture irons  R9 driver the meter is unbearable,,also im using a starter putter,,ive cleared me caches often,,can anyone please explain why this is,,i cant compete with these clubs  but im not going back to a stuttery meter,,Thanks

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 6:53 PM

  Thank you for re-posting in a more well rounded manner nivlac. it explains your much respected position a lot better.

  I agree. In days past, the pixel range was much greater than today and this is what I saw the most when making shots. Today, a one pixel miss can push the ball with a 10 mph wind and in most cases turn out to be a great shot taking the variance into consideration. Keep in mind I don't play for the ding as well as I do for putting. I should reconsider this putting style and practice the type of putting you laid out for everyone in past months. My scores would definitely improve, being that's where my game struggles the most.

  I was under the assumption that forgiveness was better than precision. After reading the FAQ's I'm changing my stance on that.

  I believe WGT created a set of irons that where truly superior to anything else in the pro shop and the scores at that time where certainly showing to that affect. I understand WGT reserves all rights to do whatever they want to their game and this like you say, will show until the release of the game.

  I along with some other members at WGT do appreciate the veteran insight you and others brings to WGT.

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2010 7:16 PM

  Hey truth67,

  I find my style of play to be quite accurate. My scores could be so much better if I didn't use that style of play on the greens. I do have the diamond award for accuracy. lol

  I hit to within 6 to 8 feet on most shots, not all. I hit most pitches within 4 feet when hitting out the ruff or bunker. I have the platinum ham n egg award as well. lol

  I'm just getting started at WGT as far as keeping stats up and I imagine in a few years I'll be saying the same thing to another member like your saying to me. Keep in mind, I'm miss hitting the "ding" on purpose. I don't suggest anyone use this style of play. I've adapted to it because I like to play by feel.

  I appreciate your insight and point of view truth67.  : )