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BASEBALL: The Strasburg question

• BubbaCrusher007 1,567 Posts

  Sat, Jul 28 2012 1:56 PM

  I totally agree with shutting him down. First full year off Tommy John surgery, and he is a fantastic pitcher. The surgery worked great, why risk having a Prior? Say what you will about baseball being a team game, but without a true front of the line starter, few teams win the World Series. Is hoping to get one this year worth the chance of Strasburg becoming a second tier pitcher? What would happen if he goes 200? We don't know, and that's exactly the point. 
  

  
  

• oneputtdavid 1,337 Posts

  Sun, Jul 29 2012 8:52 AM

  YankeeJim:

  .Sabbathia's overrated IMO anyway. A workhorse but definitely not a Verlander

  Ah, come-on Jim....CC in stripes is right up there w/FORD and Clemens!!!! IMO

  I'll be saying the same about Verlander next year!!!!! Just goggle his girlfriends pics!

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:02 AM

  LOL. Case in point yesterday. A stumbling, bumbling Red Sox team gets 6 runs off of him. 

• oneputtdavid 1,337 Posts

  Sun, Jul 29 2012 10:00 AM

  YankeeJim:

  LOL. Case in point yesterday. A stumbling, bumbling Red Sox team gets 6 runs off of him. 

  Yea and JV (w/a 3-1 lead in the 7th) w'a 101mph fb gives up back-to back HR's+ 2  to the Indians! 

  Oh by the way Damn them Jays!!! Just for you Lee,Soul,BB! LOL

  Keeping on topic.. the Stras' situation? "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't" Whatever the Nat's decision to do; I hope he has a long and productive career!  

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Tue, Jul 31 2012 8:06 AM

  And just for the record, the Nats are now in sole possession of the best record in the majors.

  With what should be a marquee matchup today, even with the Phillies struggling and all but out of it.  Strasburg vs. Cliff Lee this evening, as the Nats try to maintain at least 3.5 games on the Braves.  I'm sure they'd love to add another few games to that before Stras sits for the season.

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Tue, Jul 31 2012 11:45 AM

  BubbaCrusher007:

  I totally agree with shutting him down. First full year off Tommy John surgery, and he is a fantastic pitcher. The surgery worked great, why risk having a Prior? Say what you will about baseball being a team game, but without a true front of the line starter, few teams win the World Series. Is hoping to get one this year worth the chance of Strasburg becoming a second tier pitcher? What would happen if he goes 200? We don't know, and that's exactly the point. 

  I agree 100%.  We do know what happens when they shut a pitcher down after 160-170 innings, as they did last year with Jordan Zimmerman, who this year is one of the league leaders in ERA, leads the majors in Q starts, and hasn't gone under 6 full in a start this season.  Strasburg's path thusfar has been nearly identical to JZim's, so why mess with a good thing?

  oneputtdavid:

  Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

  Exactly... the Nats examined the scenarios that would keep Stras pitching into the post-season if needed and determined that the cons outweighed the pros for any except following the same path they took with JZim last year, which meant no Stras the last 3+ weeks of the season, period.  They decided that to shut him down for an extended period then ramp him back up was actually more wear and tear than just pitching him, as it would require essentially two spring trainings.  They also decided to go with a 6 man rotation or skipping him once in a while would throw the whole staff off of routine, along with Stras, who thrives on routine.

  And at this point, I think they look at their staff, especially with the emergence of JZim as a third ace, and decided that with Beachy out for the year in Atlanta, their starters stacked up well with the other contenders in the NL even without Strasburg.  So why risk that arm?

  And I do contend that if the Nats were absolutely guaranteed a spot in the World Series, they might have found a way.  But they could have kept Stras pitching and still not won the division or made it out of the wild card playoff.  Not worth the risk for those odds.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Jul 31 2012 11:52 AM

  Why doesn't Lerner buy himself another quality pitcher to take up the slack? With 61 wins, there's 4 other guys taking up the 2-5 slots in the rotation that are doing the job. Do you want to pitch by committee on Stras' normal day?

  Dempster at Chicago is getting press and CLee has already shown he's a ring whore and Philly's dumping guys left and right. 

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Tue, Jul 31 2012 12:09 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Why doesn't Lerner buy himself another quality pitcher to take up the slack?

  Well, it's not the buying part, but what they would have to give up.  If they could get a deal on a pitcher that had some contract left, it might be worth it, but I don't think they want to give up more of their farm system for a few month rental.  They are firm believers that in today's baseball economy, having a strong farm is essential, and they thinned it quite a bit by giving up four top prospects for Gio Gonzalez.  Look at the season Milone is having in Oakland (one of the guys that went for Gio), and the catcher the A's just called up, Norris, is another product of that trade.

  So I think the Phillies have no reason to trade Cliff Lee if they can't get more back for him than the Nats are going to be willing to part with.  Dempster nixed the trade with ATL, saying he wanted to play for the Dodgers.  Dunno if he'd come to WASH or what it would take to get him.  I don't want them mortgaging the farm for one way above average year by a middle aged pitcher.  I'd prefer they stay away from Beckett and Josh Johnson.  The one that intrigues me is Shields of TB, but TB hasn't shown they are definitely ready to move him.

  And it's not going to be by comittee, or a replacement level player.  Even if Wang never gives them serviceable innings again, Lannan led the team in wins last season with a 3.74 ERA.  He's been a solid #3/#4 caliber ML pitcher his whole career and has been hiding in AAA the whole year (one MLB start this year for a doubleheader, went 7IP, 2ER and got the win vs. ATL).  And if they could get Wang back at anything like his Yankee 19 win form, they'd slide that into Stras' spot any day.  Since the break, the Nats have quietly slid Strasburg backward into the third slot in the rotation.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Aug 11 2012 10:58 PM

  The way things are going in D.C. today, the Strasburg thing isn't going to be a problem. They're now 28 games over .500, something they haven't seen since 1933! Most impressive, will it last? Shades of the Amazing Mets.  :-)

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Mon, Aug 13 2012 5:34 PM

  They lost last night to end an 8 game streak.  Jordan Zimmermann has been on fire for them on the mound, and they are mashing since the All-Star break, even without all-star shortstop Ian Desmond.  The Braves won 14 of 17 and lost ground on the Nats, who won 15 of 17.  The Strasburg question, at this point, likely won't be an issue as far as making the post-season.  The Nats are on a 100 win pace.  But even should they make the post-season, if they don't win a WS they will be second guessed for shutting Stras down.  And the Braves are still only 4.5 back, with the Nats in SF to face the first-place Giants away from home for three.

  Speaking of which, want to see the best pitching matchups you'll likely see all season, this series is it.  Game one, tonight, pits Gio Gonzalez vs. Ryan Vogelsong

  Gio season -  14-6 3.32 154K 54BB 1.14WHiP .209OBA

  Vogelsong -  10-5 2.27 105K 48BB 1.11WHiP .215OBA

   

  Tomorrow Jordan Zimmermann vs. Madison Bumgarner

  JZimm season -  9-6 2.35 110K 25BB 1.06WHiP .238OBA

  Bumgarner season -  12-7 3.08 144K 37BB 1.03WHiP .224OBA

  The rubber match is Strasburg (13-5 2.90 166K 38BB 1.12WHiP  .226OBA) vs. Lincecum, but this season that is only third because Lincecum has struggled horribly this season.  The Nats luck out in that they miss Cain (though it isn't like Lincecum couldn't shut down the Nats).  However, top to bottom the Nats have a better starting rotation with 0.30 better ERA.  The Nats enter the series with a 4.5 game lead on ATL, the Giants with a game lead on LA.  Should be a fun one.

   

  Just for fun, the Nats number 4 & 5 starters stats:

  Edwin Jackson -  7-7  3.74  110K 44BB 1.21WHiP  .239OBA

  Ross Detwiler -  6-5  3.18  74K 33BB  1.16WHiP  .236OBA

   

  How many teams could use the Nats numbers 4 & 5 as their 2 and 3?  LOL

   

  YankeeJim:

  Shades of the Amazing Mets.  :-)

  Jim, Jim... those Mets were a surprise because they weren't really that talented.  This team is that talented.  They just have gelled a season before anyone thought they would.  Myself included.  I hoped for a wild card berth this year since they have the expanded wild-card.  The best record in baseball halfway through August?  No way.  And they have done it missing their clean-up hitter for the first two months of the season, their #2 hitter for 3 months, all-star shortstop for a month and counting, starting catcher for the last 4+ months of the season, closer of 43 games last year for the first 3 months, and effectively missing their top position player for the first three months as a lingering shoulder issue rendered him ineffective.  They've played a 19 year old in the outfield the whole season (I know, clown point, bro :)).