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Changes to the FAQ - Averages/Tier

• karedak 1,049 Posts

  Mon, Nov 19 2012 11:55 AM

  apparently i played 2 matches as tourmaster average was around 62 after a couple of years playing was close to turning legend ,,,,won both said matches then bam turned legend first game knocked .78 off average then 2nd game i became legend was this because of these new changes or did wgt think i was sandbagger when in fact ive played not very many match play games  

  PS not complaining as i would got there anyway sooner rather than later just wondering 

• StormTigers 264 Posts

  Sun, Dec 2 2012 1:45 PM

  PUHOLINO:

  WGTpizza:

  You just consistently displayed a skill level higher than your current tier, so you were moved up faster than those who perform at a skill level equal to their current tier.

  May or may not be true, since wins are the thing the get you tiered up, and legitimate wins and wins through disconnects/forfeits are being thrown in the same basket and please don't even try to say that's not true after all that's been written by now.

  If I lose to a master in a MP because I had a terrible round or my connection was crappy, that doesn't mean they have skills to become a legend, it just means my game and internet were bad.

  Oh Lordy sounds like me your describing Pu !!!

  This on going debate is amazing. Pu has referenced me (for which I will charge him a fee for using my name in vain Haha) quite a few times. At the end of the day I was struggliing and continue to struggle with WGT. Whether it be internet or reflexes or equipment I don't know which, but I can manage 1 good round out of lots when the moon turns blue. I often say I am a good par player on the level I was on (master) but rarely scored below Par. For the sake of the discussion Pu sacrificed his playing record and I sacrificed a tier ranking.  

  But here is where the averages  and tiers concept comes apart. What does an average do for you ? Basically diddly squat in most cases except serve to set an artifical number that a heck of a lot of people struggle to maintain,  The average does nothing for on WGT really. We don;t have stableford system unfortunately which is a true handicap event I assume because it is so open to flagrant abuse. It happens in real life and it's one of the "black marks on the game".

  What feature is needed more than anything is for averages to resemble the real game. In what way ?  

  Well in the real game such as on the PGA Tour if you don;t win enough you don;t keep your Tour Card and you have to work like crap to keep it.  SO here's a thought - let's start looking at performance with a view to keeping eligibility to entering the "credit tournaments".  What would that do you ask ?

  OMG the sandbaggers won't qualify for a tournament if the don't keep playing well !!

  SOOOOOOoo qualifying for the money rounds by playing consistently well. Aha ! And you know what ? I think there's probably a lot of people out there would be perfectly happy playing in tournaments just for the bragging rights. I don;t enter the money tournaments I haven't got a hope in hell of winning anything. I tried a couple times and was that far off the pace. I did manage to win I think 1.35 credits once or twice ! Woohooo don't spend them all in one place now Stormy !

  A nice little trophy icon on my profile page would be great and whilst I would love some credits I can live without them ! 

  WGT hows about it !

  A PROFESSIONAL WGT Tour (credits/money prizes) and an AMATEUR WGT Tour (nada nix except for a graphical icon denoting a winner and a big head in the comfort of your own home).

• bopag 78 Posts

  Tue, Dec 4 2012 7:21 AM

  I would like to know what happens to the casual player. The ones that don't play for credits and don't really care about credit tournaments. He/She may play in a cc tournament once in a while for a small amount of credits but that is about it.
  
  Or say there is a match-play tournament for a cc and the lower tiered player has the round of their life and beat a higher ranked player. Does their avg go down exponentially. If that is the case then you are taking all the fun out of it for the casual player.
  
  I have played this game for over a year. My total winning are just a bit over $4, most of it from tiering up. I do not play for credits. I do not want to be penalized for having that 1 or 2 great rounds where I beat a higher tiered player every few months. If that is the case then the lower tiered players will lose on purpose to the higher player because they don't want to move up. Thus taking the competition out of tournaments.
  
  One other thing our CC has a bank for members so they can bank their winning until they get enough credits to buy something from the pro shop. Members can also make donation to this bank.
  
  So if a legend from my CC wants to donation a few credits to the bank and they play me so I can add their donation to the bank they have to lose their match to me. Making my avg drop unfairly.
  
  It did happen to me. A legend wanted to donate some credits to the Club so we played a match play tournament, he lost the match to me and my avg went down by .75 without even hitting a ball once.
  
  Why is always about the credit players when there are so many more that play this game for the fun of it. We still buy balls, avatars and upgrade our equipment.

• chris5214 1,937 Posts

  Tue, Dec 4 2012 7:28 AM

  bopag:

  I would like to know what happens to the casual player. The ones that don't play for credits and don't really care about credit tournaments.

  unfortunately, the casual player gets casually shafted with this system in its current form .. expect some changes with the next update .. it will be dialed down

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Tue, Dec 4 2012 8:04 AM

  bopag:

  It did happen to me. A legend wanted to donate some credits to the Club so we played a match play tournament, he lost the match to me and my avg went down by .75 without even hitting a ball once.
  
  

   

  Hopefully this will soon change. But I don't know why on earth you'd donate credits through MP challenge when it's MUCH  cheaper doing it through Blitz challenge. Cost of donating 1000 credits is 200 in MP and 20 in blitz (if you play for 999 cr).

• bopag 78 Posts

  Tue, Dec 4 2012 4:28 PM

  Pizza wrote

   

  Would you admit that this sentiment can be skewed by information, or rather lack thereof? If you knew that more "guilty" were being"caught" than "innocent", would you feel differently?

   

  No!! Isn't there a saying that it is better to let 10 guilty people go free that to imprison 1 innocent man.

   

  That is exactly what you are doing. You punishing the innocent because you want to catch a few cheaters. I don't care to play for credits. I have moved up the ranks playing honestly. Now if I have a gr8 round against a higher ranked player then I am punished for it.

  All you have done is stop the casual lower ranked player from playing against his or her friends in matchplay, because they will be afraid if they win(by pure luck) they will tier up before their time or are ready to..

   

  PS: By implementing this system you have also given players more incentive to become multi-account holder. If they move up in tier too fast they will just create another account and start over again.

• Games4Ever71 623 Posts

  Wed, Dec 5 2012 5:22 PM

  gbarto:

  So what happens if i'm a tour master for example and I have a legend friend and we make a deal so he purposely loses to me??  my avg. would still go down? This I think is one of the main gripes about the new system, just hope there is something in the program/feature to prevent this but dont see how that would be possible.

  Whats the point of putting this feature out there if they couldn't do that or to stop sandbaggers. If they changed it to specifically stop keeping higher tiers on purpose to lose which is very unlikely to bring your average down, this feature would be pointless. A little paranoid. It is to stop sandbaggers not piss people off like the sandbaggers do to honest people.

  I like this feature way better than the percentage one. I would rather be showing a progress in this game for fun than be lets say look like I suck or be one that complains to others in alternate shot, because they don't like a little mistake on a shot. You can't win every single game. Even the ones with 50 something averages are not perfect, but some treat other as they are. I like progress, and I rather have this feature that helps me, than take it out and be tour master for another 5 years or play a lot of stroke plays to have progress. I don't play for tokens either. I would not mind at all if the challenges for tokens were gone.

  Best answer for all this gripe just take out the whole win for credits. Make this site a non gambling site. Too many gripers about it. As for multi accounters. They will do it no matter what. There is software that changes the IP address. So even if they block the IP, it can still be done.

• bubbadork 984 Posts

  Wed, Dec 5 2012 5:50 PM

  You don't like competing with your co-workers to keep your job, so let's just drop paychecks and then everyone can relax.

  Playing for money or credits or matches or any kind of token is not gambling (in the US, at least) if skill is involved. Unfortunately, most of our congress critters don't (yet) concede that poker involves skill, but I'm pretty sure most of them would concede that golf, virtual or otherwise, does.

  I rarely play for credits since I turned legend because I'm not good enough. If you aren't good enough, don't play for credits. If you see nothing wrong with sandbaggers and other cheaters that's your prerogative. Most of us do, whether there's gain involved or merely morality. We therefore applaud WGT's efforts to stop that. 

  If the algorithm is incorrect (and it is) then point out some logical way to improve it. The way to improve it is to look at trends and not single instances. If a master beats a legend, that is no reason to advance the master by a significant amount. If a master consistently beats legends, then the master is, by definition, more than a master. Move his *** up.

• Steve2golf 930 Posts

  Thu, Dec 6 2012 5:48 AM

  I do not think these changes were for the credit players in challenge matches, they were to promote all players across the board. The challenge matches have become a ghost town as a result and that must of been a predicted result by WGT.

  I did find it funny when I seen the Cabo lvl 94 TP is now legend and beat him handily, it used to be a fun match when he was TP, now he's gone and I suspect for good. :(

  Oh well corporate suicide, can't beat it, just live with it, they all do it eventually, big money in bankruptcy for the owners. 

• spence3 18 Posts

  Sun, Dec 16 2012 4:12 AM

  WGTpizza:

  Shadowmike:

  So what do you intend to do about those that are NOT sandbaggers and have been caught in this trap. Is there any right of appeal or are we just dumped on the scrap heap to struggle on or quit in frustration?

  You may need to explain this sentiment to me, as I am having difficulty understanding it.

  The system, as it is right now, identifies players who are consistently playing at a skill level higher than their current tier. If I understand your post, you are saying that some people who do this should not be labeled a sandbagger. While I understand there may not be an intentional effort to remain at a lower tier, it does not excuse the fact that they are consistently out-performing players in the same tier.

  The system, while not perfect, will not move players up in tier who have not shown they have the skill required to be successful in that tier. You may develop your skills faster than your player level, at which point you may need to grind some xp, or buy a level up boost, to meet the requirements of higher level gear, but that's entirely up to the player. It is not necessary to purchase gear in order to succeed at a higher tier.

  So I guess I understand that you don't want people to be labeled as a "sandbagger" when they are not purposely manipulating the system, but don't you want the playing field closer to level at all tiers?

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

  I've just been promoted to legend tier and have a few issues. Firstly you say that its for players who are "consistently playing at a skill level higher than their current tier". Is this really the case for me? Most of my weekly trophies won were bronze on avg which I would say was more in the mix rather than out-performing players in my old tier. My score history would back this up surely.

  Secondly and this is my major gripe, now I am a legend all my approach shots are from 20, 30 or 40 yards further out which means my shots aren't holding where I want them to anymore - lots of balls rolling away off the back of the green leaving tough flops or chip shots. What can I do? Buy better equipment? But wait - "It is not necessary to purchase gear in order to succeed at a higher tier" No its not but its not much fun struggling to make par all the time when you were making birdies.This is passively forcing me to buy better balls @ an extra 70 credits each time (srixons vs callaways). But now the balls don't last anywhere near as long as they did when I first joined, so WGT makes more $'s off of me. Sure I don't have to but I want to have fun and its not much fun struggling so I am going to keep buying aren't I? I think that's plain unfair. Surely you make enough money without resorting to this sort of thing?

  It also seems that every time I move up a tier the random factor which effects the way my clubs perform also ramps up a bit so now missing the ding by a couple of mm's means 10 -15 yards off to the side of the hole. Sneaking that in makes it seem that I now need better irons as well - more $'s. I WAS enjoying WGT before this and I think you guys do a great job generally but I don't like the way you make your money sometimes.