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Changes to the FAQ - Averages/Tier

• Ffudd 2,541 Posts

  Fri, Nov 9 2012 5:02 PM

  saltiresfan:

  I think if you're designing a system for deterring sandbaggers you have to focus on credit matches. If someone just wants to play the game without trying to win credits then their MP results shouldn't affect their tier.

  You've said that you feel that wouldn't make sandbagging less difficult but I think were you to examine it in detail members' concerns are over players who sandbag to win credits not members who just play for fun.

  Yup the simplest (and probably most effective and fairest) method would be the credits won.

  Hack average drops to __ or wins __ credits bumps to Amateur

  Amateur average drops to __ or wins __ credits bumps to Pro

  etc etc

• carolineRobert 1,821 Posts

  Fri, Nov 9 2012 5:21 PM

  WGTpizza:

  carolineRobert:

  Why not have ONLY the matchplay games for credits count for the avg dropping instead of ALL the MP ? That way , I ( being master ) will not be affraid to play a simple MP against a friend who is TM or legend !

  So, if I understand this suggestion: you want to exclude the non-credit MP games from our anti-sandbagger system.... so that people can choose to avoid our anti-sandbagging system, and continue to play at a higher skill level than their tier denotes? Or in other words, sandbag?

  This is not acceptable, obviously, so maybe I'm missing the point? I'm all ears  :)

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

  YES you are indeed missing the point ! ...sandbaggers play for credits , stealing from others so you really should focus on that and leave the regular MP games out. The real sandbaggers sure don't play just for fun so as of now , your system hurts everyone.

  I believe that there are more honest players than sandbaggers. About some numbers to help you see better : Let us say that 25 % of players cheat and 75 % do not. with your current system , 100 % are affected by it. If you implent the anti-sandbag system for MP challenge mode only , those 75 % will go on happy not hurting anyone and the 25 % will have a harder time cheating. 

  But I understand that WGT is a big business for you guys at headquaters  and the more you have legend players , the more money you will make by selling top equipments and balls !!!!!

  Pretty much all has been said allready. The choice is yours.

• gbarto 141 Posts

  Fri, Nov 9 2012 5:54 PM

  TOTALLY agree,would bet my life that the VAST majority of the baggers play for credits not friendly match play games,here in lies the problem with the new system.

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:05 PM

  WGTpizza:

  So, if I understand this suggestion: you want to exclude the non-credit MP games from our anti-sandbagger system.... so that people can choose to avoid our anti-sandbagging system, and continue to play at a higher skill level than their tier denotes? Or in other words, sandbag?

  This is not acceptable, obviously, so maybe I'm missing the point? I'm all ears  :)

   

  It's not that I don't like baloney on my pizza, but having it as a daily diet (when it comes to this issue) is beginning to upset my stomach.

  It has been explained to you numerous times that including scored MPs does nothing to prevent bagging, it only hurts the rest. If someone was to sandbag to get to a higher level, they can still do it through practice MPs (same amount of XP points), alt shots and skins games.  They can also play skins challenges without any repercussions. The same goes for beating on tiers below theirs in MP challenges. So the including of scored MPs is meaningless for them.

  Scored MPs have never been sandbagger haven, but it's the preferred mode of play (besides alt shot) for social players, friendly matches and inter CC comps. Nobody has ever been hurt by winning or losing a match like that. It's a way to test strenght between friends from their own tees and for everybody to have fun, that is all.

  But, a question that was asked repeatedly still remains unanswered. Is your current program capable of differentiating between scored and challenge mode? I would appreciate an answer to this very much.

  I hope my point was made clearly enough. I'll still try to remain as classy as possible, but it's becoming a real effort.

  P.S.: I would love to hear your "non-company" take on this, it doesn't have to be here, I promise I won't pass it on (PM, deleted wall post, etc.). I'm just curious if you really still believe in all this, despite the outcry and evidence, or are orders from above involved.

  P.P.S.: Wasn't 100% serious with my P.S., but I'm deadly serious about the rest. Some answers without backspin are needed.

   

• FunkyWinklebean 29 Posts

  Fri, Nov 9 2012 8:57 PM

  So, what's the deal with the non-credit matchplay games? I've won two in the past two days against upper-tiered players, and my average hasn't dropped at all.And yes, I'm one of the few wackos here who is actually TRYING to lower their average via the "new" matchplay averaging rules. Gotta be quicker than via stroke play...

• WGTpizza 1,656 Posts

  Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:28 PM

  PUHOLINO:

  Is your current program capable of differentiating between scored and challenge mode?

  Yes, I would imagine that we could differentiate the two.

  PUHOLINO:

  P.S.: I would love to hear your "non-company"

  Honestly, truly, it is my opinion that this anti-sandbagging system is aiding in the fight against sandbagging, throwing a giant wrench in the spokes of someone who would think about manipulating the system.

  I'm sure the system has room to be more comprehensive, and I'm just as sure that when we find opportunities to improve it, we will.This is what we do at WGT :)

  The way I look at the system is like this: Before it was implemented, people who were displaying skills that are higher than their tier denotes, and taking advantage of unknowing players, commonly known as sandbagging, was virtually left unchecked. After this system was implemented, people are now having their Tier raised if they repeatedly demonstrate skill above their tier.

  And to further explain my disposition, when I read this suggestion I read it as "We like this feature, but how about we rearrange what game modes it affects". While that is probably within our capabilities, we want to be sure the current configuration is not the most optimal, which was, of course, according to WGT. We will need to continually monitor this feature and adjust it whenever prudent. During this time, we will intake threads upon threads of feedback. We wouldn't be able to grow the game to what it has become today without your feedback, so keep it up.

  I want to remind everyone of something - I'm not the one stopping or starting the initiative to explore whatever is suggested. I am simply the messenger, back and forth. You've helped me understand this particular suggestion a while back and it has been suggested and is discussed almost daily within my department. Keep sending feedback, but remember that WGT can only move at the speed of business :)

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Sat, Nov 10 2012 3:03 AM

  FunkyWinklebean:

  So, what's the deal with the non-credit matchplay games? I've won two in the past two days against upper-tiered players, and my average hasn't dropped at all.And yes, I'm one of the few wackos here who is actually TRYING to lower their average via the "new" matchplay averaging rules. Gotta be quicker than via stroke play.

   

  Buddy, you're in legend tier and I don't think this system was designed to promote you to TL. It looks to only be affecting lower tiers, not us. But, on the bright side, beating on TLs still gives you bragging rights, so enjoy ;-)

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Sat, Nov 10 2012 3:23 AM

  WGTpizza:

  I want to remind everyone of something - I'm not the one stopping or starting the initiative to explore whatever is suggested. I am simply the messenger, back and forth.

   

  And I'm sure most of us appreciate your work very much. Thank you for your answer.

   

  WGTpizza:

  And to further explain my disposition, when I read this suggestion I read it as "We like this feature, but how about we rearrange what game modes it affects". While that is probably within our capabilities, we want to be sure the current configuration is not the most optimal, which was, of course, according to WGT

   

  Yes, I personally like this feature, although we've heard evidence from some people that tourney (RG) prizes may disproportionally lower their avg, but that's a minority. And yes, I'm sure most of us would prefer if it was implemented in credit games only, since that's the playground of choice for sandbaggers, I don't think they waste their balls on free games. I hope that with time the scored MPs in this feature will be replaced with skins challenge. Looks like they can still do the same damage there, so might be somethink to  think about fixing.

  Ty again for your work. And, btw, if anything I'm writing could look like a guide for sandbaggers, feel free to edit it. Not my intention ;-)

• Games4Ever71 623 Posts

  Sat, Nov 10 2012 2:22 PM

  courteneyfish:

  riskplayer:

  This IS a great thing, but should ONLY be used in challenge games and tournaments. NOT in friendly games.

  Then play friendly games in practice mode. 

   

  I agree with that.

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Sat, Nov 10 2012 2:40 PM

  Games4Ever71:

  courteneyfish:

  riskplayer:

  This IS a great thing, but should ONLY be used in challenge games and tournaments. NOT in friendly games.

  Then play friendly games in practice mode. 

   

  I agree with that.

  A couple of problems with practice mode:

  -players with different club ranges and different skills are forced to play from same tees. Not having a chance to ever win must be sooooo much fun for the lesser skilled.

  -if anybody gets disconnected, there's no game lobby to rejoin, so your whole game goes to waste.

   

  Fix that and I'm on board.