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Changes to the FAQ - Averages/Tier

• upinsmoketour 342 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 2:10 AM

  I was one of the players who complained to WGT about sandbagging & for the past few years have prayed that they would do something to combat this issue & now they have. The new system ain't perfect but it sure is a step in the right direction so WELL DONE WGT !  smokie......

• truly2bad2play 104 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 5:48 AM

  If I'm reading this correctly.."People feel as if they do not "deserve" to have their tier moved up when they consistently display a skill level higher than their current tier",,,That's the whole point...I haven't played consistently at a level higher than my current tier...If I had i would be perfectly content going up a notch..I play and play over and over again ranked games alone and only complete a game when i am not going to be 10 over par,I have been playing for about 15 weeks,my skill challenge games, hundreds if not thousands of games played partially,if i am not going to beat my previous score I restart lol...my score history is there to see,as is my streak for daily play,yet nothing like that many posted scores...from 14th September my scores; 34 and a 32, that was for 3 day period..36 (13 days later lol)....38 scored 28 days after that..34/39 then finally an 18 hole game on congressional and I got a 75 22nd of October,and started playing stroke play more..37/34/36/74/39/68(my best ever game on 28th of october)..70/71/37/34/38/34  then,I make that 5 x 18 hole and 14 x 9 hole games total I completed since the 5th of september,and that's the only ones I completed,others were too ridiculous to complete...can't see the consistency there above my current level,don't think anyone else will either...seems it was good enough for master anyway,19 games played 8 of them over par lol..Look out bollox..seems i am gonna be up there soon at this rate lolol...anyway,if I took it seriously I would be miffed,but some peeps do,after all,it's not virtual money we spend is it..I will continue to enjoy it,I enjoy a joke obviously.

• WGTpizza 1,656 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 10:23 AM

  Shadowmike:

  So what do you intend to do about those that are NOT sandbaggers and have been caught in this trap. Is there any right of appeal or are we just dumped on the scrap heap to struggle on or quit in frustration?

  You may need to explain this sentiment to me, as I am having difficulty understanding it.

  The system, as it is right now, identifies players who are consistently playing at a skill level higher than their current tier. If I understand your post, you are saying that some people who do this should not be labeled a sandbagger. While I understand there may not be an intentional effort to remain at a lower tier, it does not excuse the fact that they are consistently out-performing players in the same tier.

  The system, while not perfect, will not move players up in tier who have not shown they have the skill required to be successful in that tier. You may develop your skills faster than your player level, at which point you may need to grind some xp, or buy a level up boost, to meet the requirements of higher level gear, but that's entirely up to the player. It is not necessary to purchase gear in order to succeed at a higher tier.

  So I guess I understand that you don't want people to be labeled as a "sandbagger" when they are not purposely manipulating the system, but don't you want the playing field closer to level at all tiers?

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

• truly2bad2play 104 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 11:37 AM

  To be fair,I think applying the same to all types of gameplay would not help against sandbaggers so much,stroke play is where true skill comes to the fore imho.If u have the skills in all departments then u truly deserve to be raised in tier.Deliberate manipulation is so blatantly obvious in the tournaments in my eyes,and challenge games too..A pro at level 50 whose average is in the mid 50's,making top 10 or top 100 placings in every tournament they have ever entered & whose stats are astonishing is the kind that i would see as "taking liberties" lol..But in my case,being raised "too early" (my personal feelings),while at first scary,has made me really knuckle down and given me a more focused approach,I feel my game has improved tremendously this last few days,playing better than I have ever done before.....I did have well over a decade of playing a very,very similar game on a games console 20 +years ago,so the meter and wind factor were easier for me coming in to this game,as they are identical in that respect,as is the green (although could spin it in this old game for a clearer read.)..WGT is a vastly improved and more detailed version of that,comparatively speaking,Barney & a real T-Rex lol..So, maybe I do have a bit of a headstart as far as progression being speedier for me,so am looking at it from a more confident perspective now,maybe the level up is just what I needed after all :)

• chris5214 1,937 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 11:40 AM

  ^^^^^ ....  ?????? ....  unbelievable 

  no offense Pizza .. i realize ur job here in the forums must often seem thankless .. 

  but really, with all that has been said here, and in the "avg dropping like rocks" thread, it seems to me that countless posts relating to this debacle is being purposefully skimmed over .. 

  one word sums up my thoughts on this .. "gobsmacked"

• WGTpizza 1,656 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 11:50 AM

  chris5214:

  but really, with all that has been said here, and in the "avg dropping like rocks" thread, it seems to me that countless posts relating to this debacle is being purposefully skimmed over

  Since you have read all of the other threads about this subject, you know that not only did I not "skim over" anything, I dove in and requested in-depth explanations of your feedback so that I could properly convey your message to WGT.

  The points have been gathered, the message has been delivered. I am glad to continue conversations on this subject, but I will need intimate explanations to everyone's differing opinions before I can properly collect the feedback.

  I apologize if I am coming across as unreachable, but I would argue that I am displaying the opposite. Have I missed your point entirely?

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 12:13 PM

  WGTpizza:

  The system, as it is right now, identifies players who are consistently playing at a skill level higher than their current tier.

  WGTpizza:

  The system, while not perfect, will not move players up in tier who have not shown they have the skill required to be successful in that tier

   

  This reminds me of an old proverb, which goes: "If you say something enough times, it becomes true (even when it isn't)."

  Maybe if that quote had an amandman, something like: "The system, as it is right now, identifies players who are consistently playing at a skill level higher than their current tier ........... AND   every 1 who is an average player within his tier and gets 5 disconnects/forfeits from a legend (example, an 69 avg master with 100 rounds in master tier becomes a TM this way)"? Maybe then we'd be closer to the actual truth, don't you think?

  Or do you think people are just making up these numbers for the hell of it?

• renniw52 5,385 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 1:01 PM

  What a can of worms. I made Legend before all this nonsense occurred. I played my butt off, bought all I could and played the rounds to get there. It was a long, hard, expensive route. Any player who constantly out plays higher tiers, collects the credits, and then purposely throws stroke rounds to stay at a lower level, you are getting your just do. Man up or man out. I play with way better players every night. I may win one out of 10. Guess what, I am still trying to learn, i don't prey on any un-suspecting players, and I have a good time. If you have been escalated to a higher tier, and you don't have the equipment to be the winner all the time, then your day has come. Spend a few bucks and show the higher tiers you have been beating, that you have the skills to do so, not the tee advantages, or whatever else you have been using to your advantage. I don't play for credits, never have, so this does not pertain to me. I think WGT made the right move here. I am sure that Pizza will concur with this. After all it is crystal clear.

• chris5214 1,937 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 1:33 PM

  WGTpizza:

  chris5214:

  but really, with all that has been said here, and in the "avg dropping like rocks" thread, it seems to me that countless posts relating to this debacle is being purposefully skimmed over

  I apologize if I am coming across as unreachable, but I would argue that I am displaying the opposite. Have I missed your point entirely?

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

  no need for apologies .. we are merely debating furiously over an issue where the lines remain crossed .. much to my consternation i might add ..

  back on point .. u only need to look at "2bad2play" 's post directly above yours .. 

  it corroborates the point that "Puholino" , amongst many other players, have been attempting to make .. this thread, together with the "avg's dropping" thread, demonstrates adequately that there exists ample proof that players without the necessary skill & consistency have been bumped up in tiers ..

  i honestly do not know what else to say .. maybe somebody could make the point by collecting all those posts made by people saying the exact same thing and dump it all in one thread ..

  as i said previously in other threads, this doesn't affect me one little bit .. i made it to Legend the old fashioned way by shaving 0.01 off my avg per good round .. but it does affect a helluva lotta folk who aren't bagging or cheating in any way whatsoever ..

  how many are just not speaking up ? i know of many in our CC alone who are just grumbling amongst themselves .. and i'm using the term "grumbling" very loosely .. it's virtually killed off scored MP games amongst players in different tiers in our CC .. i'm betting my bottom $ that the situation is by no means unique to players within our CC ..

  but hey .. c'est la vie

   

   

   

   

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 1:37 PM

  renniw52:

  Any player who constantly out plays higher tiers, collects the credits, and then purposely throws stroke rounds to stay at a lower level, you are getting your just do. Man up or man out

  In total agreement there. Unfortunately, this system includes free scored MPs in such a drastic manner, that my friend (we played a game together once, he's on your friends list as well), who has been struggling to make 70, had a 69 avg after about 100 rounds at master tier, dropped 3 strokes cause I disconnected from 2 games. 2-3 more times and he's a TM. No skill or credits were involved, and these were his only wins against a higher tier ever. That's the issue most of us have with it.

  Meanwhile, all the baggers are still allowed to roam free in the world of skins challenge with no repercussions. A system that would only recognize net profits in all challenge games would be IMO optimal, but I won't be holding my breath, I realize it would be very complicated to set it up.

  I'm just not a fan of this Guantanamo like attitude from WGT. I'm in no way trying to compare the gravity of both, but the basic principles of operation sound the same: "We don't care if we sacrifice some innocent, as long as we catch some guilty."

  Edit: I'm sorry if I'm breaking the "no politics" forum clause, I'm not using the Guantanamo comparison as a political statement in any way nor do I wish to engage in any such discussions.