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The Cheats Aren't A Myth!

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Fri, Mar 15 2013 9:53 PM

  I would like WGT to make this game harder / more difficult to play yes...........but not the uneven lies route. Uneven lies just introduces a difficulty factor because it's so messed up and nothing like real golf....or at least not the real life game I know.

  From the public courses I play to private courses & championship courses I've played including St Andrews, Gleneagles & Turnberry.....I've yet to hit a shot where I hit the drive onto the middle of a fairway then have to aim 30yrds left or right of pin with no wind whatsoever  to move the ball forward and in the direction of the green.....just because the ball is resting in a divot mark or on a slight up or downslope. In real life golf, this is not any big deal. Here on WGT in uneven lies format it turns into fantasy golf.

  Uneven lies introduces a difficulty factor similarly to making a game of tennis harder to play cause you've given the tennis players a cricket bat to use instead...that's all.....any realism just farted and flew out of the window.

  Sure uneven lies is fun....may even be harder...is this or is that.......but it's nothing like the real game and WGT needs to make this game harder by incorporating factors that are consistent with the real game.

  Reduce the distances all clubs hit and the accuracy of them (all levels down to starter gear)....unless anyone on here can regularly drive 350 yrds+ and stick balls to within 6ft of the flag 75% of the time, stopping them on a dime from 200yrds out ?? Any takers ?? WGT claims to have 6 million users....let's see how many of them can honestly hold their hands up.....hmm i guess no one can :)

  This won't have much of an effect on the top of leaderboards. The better players will always win no matter what....BUT it might go some way to adding a few extra strokes onto a player's round and in effect you'll see higher scores being posted more frequently  at the top of leaderboards...(more apparent in single play).....i.e more 59's than 54's.

  Bring VEM more into play other than the uneven lies rubbish. We all love to hate VEM but compared to uneven lies, VEM is actually far more realistic to the real life game than the UL nonsense and that's the truth of the matter. Anyone who plays real life golf will have had many of the WTF! shots....both good ones and bad ones. :)

  I'd rather I had the ball fly 10 - 15 yrds passed the pin on a shot which got yardage vemmed or hit a downslope on the green and rolled out big time.... but was aimed and went visually in the direction I would  have played the shot in real life, than having to aim in the direction of the sun in order to land the ball on the moon lol....this removes any realism whatsoever from what is a great game.

  This in only my opinion......but each to their own.

  I play WGT because I'm a keen golfer....not because I'm a gamer.

   

  tbe

• geraldlarousse 1,986 Posts

  Fri, Mar 15 2013 10:49 PM

  Yes, TBE, i would like to also add that uneven lies removes skill greatly. I call it aim and hope lol. I'll take VEM any day over uneven lies. Sure is fun to play, but to compete with, you can have it.

• chrisironsbones 3,524 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 6:09 AM

  TarheelsRule:

  Buoyed with confidence, I entered a ready go at Congressional with uneven lies on the back nine.   5 under par through 17, pegged a perfect drive on 18.  Which of course left me with a severe slope with the ball above my feet.  Aimed way right (10 yards right of the green) and the ball went dead left, ended up in the deep grass just out of the water.  My next shop was an even more severe sidehill lie.  I aimed almost to the front of the green and the ball pretty much went over my head into the drink.   Put me in the same spot on my drop and I did it again.  Finally got it on the green and managed a 9, getting me back to even for the round.

   

  Yes, i've had this shot twice, first time i aimed as you did, SECOND TIME, I aimed double the amount right, but still landed in same place.  Its like WGT have only programmed this shot into the shot calculator.LOL  Having to aim 30 yards left to get to pin is plain ridiculous. 

  TarheelsRule:

  until then I will not play any uneven lies.

  Same here

   

  Tightrope:

  CerinoDevoti:

  Intuitive reactive game play is what is actually needed to play in the US Open IRL and I'd really like to have that kind of challenge presented to us here this year.

  Uneven lies are far from intuitive, instead they are often plain ridiculous. Some lies almost make shots go over your own shoulder. More importantly - the WGT application of it has hardly anything to do with IRL uneven lies. They should have started with making it possible to select and adjust stance and club face before attempting to incorporate lies.

  If WGT would reduce the effect of the lies to 10% of the current, it would be bearable, but still a bit on the silly side.

   

  maybe reduce it by half, but around the greens are comical

   

  PETERGEORGE1:

  Uneven lies? - Yawn

  Only seems to be one name banging the drum for these, sounding like a broken record......

  LOL

  thebigeasy707:

  From the public courses I play to private courses & championship courses I've played including St Andrews, Gleneagles & Turnberry.....I've yet to hit a shot where I hit the drive onto the middle of a fairway then have to aim 30yrds left or right of pin with no wind whatsoever  to move the ball forward and in the direction of the green.....just because the ball is resting in a divot mark or on a slight up or downslope. In real life golf, this is not any big deal. Here on WGT in uneven lies format it turns into fantasy golf.

  Yes, this is why UNEVEN LIES on WGT is so UNREALISTIC, you dont see any one who lands on a nice smooth fairway having to aim at a tree off the course to get to a flag.

   

  thebigeasy707:

  Bring VEM more into play other than the uneven lies rubbish. We all love to hate VEM but compared to uneven lies, VEM is actually far more realistic to the real life game than the UL nonsense and that's the truth of the matter.

  Yes, I hate VEM/deviation but its the lesser of 2 evils.  WGT need another year of tweeking and testing before releasing U.L, but I'm sure they never bother with testing do they?? We're the suckers who have to waste balls on doing it

   

   

   

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 6:39 AM

  chrisironsbones:

  Yes, I hate VEM/deviation but its the lesser of 2 evils.  WGT need another year of tweeking and testing before releasing U.L, but I'm sure they never bother with testing do they?? We're the suckers who have to waste balls on doing it

  +1

  I would add that I think all the tweaking that can be done to UL has been done....so what you see now is all you'll ever get with UL. No need to live in hope. It's as good as it's ever gonna be.

  In no way am I trying to berate WGT's efforts. They have done a truly fantastic job uptil now, developing the game into the success it is. I just wouldn't like to see this game deteriorate into crazy golf.

  What next?? maybe huge windwills in the middle of fairways or obstacles on the green defending the pin lol....in order to make the game more challenging :)

  

   

  Just trying to keep things real.

  tbe

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 8:51 AM

  CerinoDevoti:

  I've spent a hell of a lot of time practicing for the last year on UL play just in the hope it's used in this years US Open. I'd like the conditions to favor me as much as the top players want it to favor them. If the 2013 US V Open is played on artificial lies that are nothing but flat, my interest becomes near zero.

  Cerino I am seriously thinking you've developed tunnel vision over this whole UL issue. You appear to have decided that you cannot compete with the elite guys under normal conditions. That's a world that 99.9% of us live in too.Your thinking appears to be if you really put in the practice in UL in its current unpopular format, this will somehow give you an advantage. It appears as though you have become quite obsessive over it.

  For me the whole point of the forums is for players to assist WGT in this developing concept with positive and negative feedback. I don't think there can be more than a tiny number of players who think WGT has the UL  game play anywhere near realistic. Given you state you have played this format more than most, do you not think you should be offering up some suggestions as to where WGT needs to improve instead of suggesting it's good to go for the US & British Open tournaments?

  If UL were incorporated into the imminent US Open it would be a joke tournament where the winner would be one of a few top players who managed to avoid the ridiculous results achievable on shots that IRL are not that much harder because of a slope. Earlier today I had to aim out of bounds to the right on the 18th at STA with my approach from 80 yards. The ball still only just clung on to the left side of the green. It would be easy for a player to score an 8 or 9 on a hole through nothing more than bad luck and the screwed physics of the format.

  If WGT announced in advance that the US Open were to be played on UL I doubt it would give you any advantage at all. The reason being that all of those elite players would pratice their @sses off on it and have it nailed on as they do with the regular format. You are to be commended in your assistance to others in giving out tips etc, I just wish you'd wake up and see the true picture of the UL game as it is now and focus your passion on improving it.

   

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 9:05 AM

  I'm a little surprised at what I've read but I suppose I shouldn't be. As the UL is now it's not perfect but it's at least representative of the ground as it actually is. You guys know that if you play RSG the fairway lies would be brutal to negotiate IRL but we suspend our disbelief when we play it on here in standard mode. Yes, I do understand IRL we all would be making stance and ball position adjustments to compensate but compared  to making absolutely none as if the natural lies don't even exist is silly IMO.

  Reading that someone would rather have greater VEM instead of UL is the funniest thing I've read here in a while when you consider some previous posts on the matter. Like the complaining about it would suddenly stop? Right now we have a screen shot and replay example in another thread of what I would consider a very good approach shot result and a very makeable putt to follow. I can only laugh.

  The idea of making the clubs have less spin is also laughable. You mean to tell me if on a specific date all our equipment suddenly performed to a lesser degree this place wouldn't go nuts with complaints that never ended? We all spent too many credits for the gear we have then it all just performs like crap. Yeah right.

  It's an amazing amount of bargaining offered up here just to avoid UL. I don't buy any of it for a minute. If you take the time to study the movement of the green dot indicator, it moves at a specific rate in relation to the degree of offset needed to hit the ball at a target. All you have to do is move the aimer in the opposite direction at the exact rate as it moves from center to side. WGT provides all the information we need. It's right there in front of us. We have players here who have charted their clubs and made putting charts, why not spend a little time observing the UL indicator dot movement and making some conclusions based on experience? I didn't notice it at first but one day it just clicked.

  P.S. I beat the drum of UL because I'm a drummer. It's what we do ;-)

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 9:23 AM

  tiffer67:

  CerinoDevoti:

  I've spent a hell of a lot of time practicing for the last year on UL play just in the hope it's used in this years US Open. I'd like the conditions to favor me as much as the top players want it to favor them. If the 2013 US V Open is played on artificial lies that are nothing but flat, my interest becomes near zero.

  Cerino I am seriously thinking you've developed tunnel vision over this whole UL issue. You appear to have decided that you cannot compete with the elite guys under normal conditions. That's a world that 99.9% of us live in too.Your thinking appears to be if you really put in the practice in UL in its current unpopular format, this will somehow give you an advantage. It appears as though you have become quite obsessive over it.

  For me the whole point of the forums is for players to assist WGT in this developing concept with positive and negative feedback. I don't think there can be more than a tiny number of players who think WGT has the UL  game play anywhere near realistic. Given you state you have played this format more than most, do you not think you should be offering up some suggestions as to where WGT needs to improve instead of suggesting it's good to go for the US & British Open tournaments?

  If UL were incorporated into the imminent US Open it would be a joke tournament where the winner would be one of a few top players who managed to avoid the ridiculous results achievable on shots that IRL are not that much harder because of a slope. Earlier today I had to aim out of bounds to the right on the 18th at STA with my approach from 80 yards. The ball still only just clung on to the left side of the green. It would be easy for a player to score an 8 or 9 on a hole through nothing more than bad luck and the screwed physics of the format.

  If WGT announced in advance that the US Open were to be played on UL I doubt it would give you any advantage at all. The reason being that all of those elite players would pratice their @sses off on it and have it nailed on as they do with the regular format. You are to be commended in your assistance to others in giving out tips etc, I just wish you'd wake up and see the true picture of the UL game as it is now and focus your passion on improving it.

   

  I can't say you're wrong about my  tunnel vision or obsession with UL. Very astute observation actually. Sure I know that the best players would just practice it up and take all the honors in the V US Open. They're better than 99% and should be the top placements. The thing is, I look at the un-natural flat lies the same way they look at the Uneven lies. We both think the other is ridiculous. With that in mind, that's why I want my voice heard as much as they want to be heard. The real balance is where it always is, in the middle. I've also contacted WGT directly with my observations based on lot's of practice as well as sending a statistical recap of our Tough It Out UL Tourney results directly to Chad. We showed what the GIR and average distance to the pins where using UL across all tiers.  Ranting about everything that's wrong isn't my style. I like sending real numbers to WGT directly.

  On St A UL or not, I hit my drives to the flat part of the fairway on the left. Mostly in the first fairway where a perfectly placed camera view aimed at the 18th pin is waiting. Check it out especially if you're playing UL there. It's nearly dead flat for an approach.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 9:32 AM

  CerinoDevoti:

  We showed what the GIR and average distance to the pins where using UL across all tiers.

  Any chance of sharing that here? Just curious.

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Sat, Mar 16 2013 10:13 AM

  CerinoDevoti:

  The thing is, I look at the un-natural flat lies the same way they look at the Uneven lies. We both think the other is ridiculous. With that in mind, that's why I want my voice heard as much as they want to be heard.

  I agree with you about the current normal gameplay, it is ridiculous. It wasn't as ridiculous a couple of years ago where the limitations of the clubs and ball meant more thought had to go into the game. I'd like to see the game return to somewhere near what it was back then.

  The real balance is where it always is, in the middle. I've also contacted WGT directly with my observations based on lot's of practice as well as sending a statistical recap of our Tough It Out UL Tourney results directly to Chad. We showed what the GIR and average distance to the pins where using UL across all tiers.  Ranting about everything that's wrong isn't my style. I like sending real numbers to WGT directly.

  Good on you, my apologies for wrongly assuming you  weren't doing anything to help out other than offer up a view through rose tinted specs :) Can I ask, are you getting any feedback from them other than the "thanks for that" response?

  My own viewpoint on making the game tougher would be a combination of UL and the use of faster meter speeds and a reduced ding area when in rough, bunkers etc. The more severe the lie the faster the swing meter and smaller the ding area. This would mean that it becomes increasingly harder to hit a perfect shot and any error would be penalised accodingly.