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Here we go again

• 9,041 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 7:47 AM

  YankeeJim:

  why I stay out of cheat conversations.  

  Glad I stayed out...my off the cuff response to reading all pages of this discussion would be ....

  "I don't give a...."    

  I suppose as members it could be argued we should further fair play in all its aspects..

  But being part of a police force was never a career choice I contemplated.....especially when getting to the crux of the matter is someone else's job that I don't get paid for..

  It is enough for me to know that the ppl I play with are solid and beyond reproach.

  Andy

• Covenant 1,498 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 7:47 AM

  Downloading this cheat program is not cheating, installing it is not cheating, trying to find out how it works by your own in a non competitive way, or even with others if they know is not even cheating. Its gaining knowledge.

  Only when you use it in a competitive way, say in a tourney, any game against another, or any form where a win is of some importance, its cheating, because you are using out of the game - software to unnaturally enhance your chance to better your results.

   

  If you go that far already convicting the fact that somebody takes a step into cheating before actually using it, then you have to throw out all the people who ever did even think of it, or think about the use of it by themselves or others in any way possible.

  Which makes everyone guilty

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 7:50 AM

  PaulTon:

  aving a program on your computer does facilitate its use.

  Since you won't, I did.

  

  In order to facilitate something you would have to use it. Facilitate is a verb. Having it doesn't mean using it.

  Semantics.  :-)

• Covenant 1,498 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 7:51 AM

  rmchangin:

  Covenant:

  Simple fact: cheating software for this game exist, is available and is being used.

   

  Question: Are we just going to accept that fact, or should we be trying to do something about it?

  We all understand this Fact Cove...But To Post  something  so full of errors, and that will cause Players to be called out as cheats if there cheating or not....You Really think this helping the Game Out....Then to take the stance we didn't do anything wrong, Really? What the Rules of the game doesn't apply to WGTLS members. You guys take this as a personal attack by me...well it's not I was trying to simply point how flawed this Post  really  is.....All of you need to put your EGO's aside play the game worry about YOUR game and let others worry about theres, then thing might run a little smoother  

   

   

  Is it even possible for you to reply to anything without using some sort of abusal? 

  You say that this post of jcgfree could lead to all kind of unsubstantial accusations, but along the way of this topic of yours you are doing nothing else.

   

• rmchangin 1,327 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 7:54 AM

  geraldlarousse:

  tiffer67:

  geraldlarousse:

  Sorry Tiffer, i have to disagree here. So you are saying that it is okay to download cheating software to check out how it works?

   

  Well speaking from my own perspective, there is nothing wrong with that as long as the software is not then used ongoing.

  For the last 4 years there has been continual debate on this issue. Up until probably the last 18 months the general perception of many players was that cheating software simply did not exist. This was of course utter nonsense as there were and still are a number of cheat programs.

  About 2 years ago my curiosity led me to download cheat engine version 4. I did so to prove to myself that there was such a software. How else can you speak with any authority on any matter if you are not in possession of the facts? Downloading the program was as far as I got, the program was simply too complex for someone of my basic knowledge of computers. Had I been able to set it up my intention was to play a practice 9 with it purely to see if it did what many players were claiming. After this I would uninstall it. As it was I took one look at it and uninstalled it within minutes.

  Now, does this mean I am a cheat? Does this mean I have spent the last 2 years playing this game as a cheat?

  geraldlarousse:

  Sorry cheating software here is illegal period. This is not Wgtls. You download it you are gone, at least that is what i read in the rules.

  Sorry but I fail to see what WGTLS has to do with this argument? WGTLS was actually the site that was responsible for highlighting, with irrefutable proof, that such software existed. WGTLS provided a great service to the WGT community by proving and dealing with a known cheat first. Any suggestion or perception out there that WGTLS is some sort of safe haven for cheats is wrong and disrespectful to Mark, a guy who has put way more into the enjoyment of WGT than 95% of all other players of this game.

  As for the rules, you will have to educate me I'm afraid. If what I did 2 years ago merits a ban or expulsion from WGT then so be it, my conscience is clear. I'm sure a look into my score history over the years will demonstrate clearly that I have never used any such software and am as honest a member as anyone else out there.

   

  Totally understand what you said Tiffer, but i'm sorry mate downloading cheating software is against the rules.

  I respect every word you have to say Tiffer, as you are one of the most highly respected players on this site.

  I have no problem with wgtls site, they choose to do what they like, its their site. This on the other hand is WGT, and downloading cheating software is against the rules, period.

  Rules are rules, how it goes, at least in the home i was brought up in. I also think that they all knew the rules before downloading it,,,no??

  It is what it is, and time for them to go.

  Or i guess we change the rules? Sorry mate it is what it is, and i have learned that from some of the best here. Best advice ever given.

  Thats the biggest problem with WGTLS  they have a few members that think there above the rules.They want to police how everyone else plays...but they dont want to be policed them self .

   

• geraldlarousse 1,986 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 7:57 AM

  Covenant:

  Downloading this cheat program is not cheating, installing it is not cheating, trying to find out how it works by your own in a non competitive way, or even with others if they know is not even cheating. Its gaining knowledge.

  Only when you use it in a competitive way, say in a tourney, any game against another, or any form where a win is of some importance, its cheating, because you are using out of the game - software to unnaturally enhance your chance to better your results.

   

  If you go that far already convicting the fact that somebody takes a step into cheating before actually using it, then you have to throw out all the people who ever did even think of it, or think about the use of it by themselves or others in any way possible.

  Which makes everyone guilty

  Holy........lol. Sorry i'm done here. Yall have at it. This is craziness at is best. This game is done, no integrity left.

  If you used this software in a none competitive round,,,you just broke the rules!!!!!

  Damn shame. Good luck to all. :)

  Edit: I would like to know though what part of the rules do you not understand? Its wrong, period! Gaining knowledge? What do you need to know? You can't see if someone is using it,,,,pipe dream mate. Way too many variables in the picture.

• Covenant 1,498 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 8:05 AM

  rmchangin:

   

  Thats the biggest problem with WGTLS  they have a few members that think there above the rules.They want to police how everyone else plays...but they dont want to be policed them self .

   

   

  Why are you venting your problems with WGTLS on here? The only thing thats connects WGT with Wgtls is the game played, but thats all.

  And if its a personal thing, i would happily post on here what you had to tell us in your own colourfull way, and what got you kicked of the site in the first place.

  And why are you jumping subjects in this post anyway? One time you are foulmouthing the fact that WGTLS pays attention to the cheating problem and suddenly you change to the fact that WGTLS has moderators, with the same job as they have on here, who, in your eyes make a mockery out of that.

  And again you are exactly doing that what you accuse  others of, making completely proofless unsubstantiated accusations; and as soon, which is mostly immediately, you lack any arguments to back up these accusations you fall back on abusive language..

   

  What is your point anyway?

   

• rmchangin 1,327 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 8:06 AM

  Covenant:

  rmchangin:

  Covenant:

  Simple fact: cheating software for this game exist, is available and is being used.

   

  Question: Are we just going to accept that fact, or should we be trying to do something about it?

  We all understand this Fact Cove...But To Post  something  so full of errors, and that will cause Players to be called out as cheats if there cheating or not....You Really think this helping the Game Out....Then to take the stance we didn't do anything wrong, Really? What the Rules of the game doesn't apply to WGTLS members. You guys take this as a personal attack by me...well it's not I was trying to simply point how flawed this Post  really  is.....All of you need to put your EGO's aside play the game worry about YOUR game and let others worry about theres, then thing might run a little smoother  

   

   

  Is it even possible for you to reply to anything without using some sort of abusal? 

  You say that this post of jcgfree could lead to all kind of unsubstantial accusations, but along the way of this topic of yours you are doing nothing else.

   

  How can i put it so even someone a thick as you will get it, Lets see here.....Sorry cant Dumb down enough for you.....Your response just enforces the SMUG  ELITIST  attitude i have been Talking about...  

   

• Covenant 1,498 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 8:08 AM

  geraldlarousse:

  Covenant:

  Downloading this cheat program is not cheating, installing it is not cheating, trying to find out how it works by your own in a non competitive way, or even with others if they know is not even cheating. Its gaining knowledge.

  Only when you use it in a competitive way, say in a tourney, any game against another, or any form where a win is of some importance, its cheating, because you are using out of the game - software to unnaturally enhance your chance to better your results.

   

  If you go that far already convicting the fact that somebody takes a step into cheating before actually using it, then you have to throw out all the people who ever did even think of it, or think about the use of it by themselves or others in any way possible.

  Which makes everyone guilty

  Holy........lol. Sorry i'm done here. Yall have at it. This is craziness at is best. This game is done, no integrity left.

  If you used this software in a none competitive round,,,you just broke the rules!!!!!

  Damn shame. Good luck to all. :)

  Edit: I would like to know though what part of the rules do you not understand? Its wrong, period! Gaining knowledge? What do you need to know? You can't see if someone is using it,,,,pipe dream mate. Way too many variables in the picture.

  In all you say its inevitable that you are greatly opposed to cheating, as are most of us, and even in the most early stage of it, even before using it when is actually has effect on results concerning others.

  If so, are you not a bit curious how you , we , WGT,WGTLS could detect if someone indeed is using any sort of this kind of software?

• Covenant 1,498 Posts

  Sat, Jun 22 2013 8:11 AM

  rmchangin:

  Covenant:

  rmchangin:

  Covenant:

  Simple fact: cheating software for this game exist, is available and is being used.

   

  Question: Are we just going to accept that fact, or should we be trying to do something about it?

  We all understand this Fact Cove...But To Post  something  so full of errors, and that will cause Players to be called out as cheats if there cheating or not....You Really think this helping the Game Out....Then to take the stance we didn't do anything wrong, Really? What the Rules of the game doesn't apply to WGTLS members. You guys take this as a personal attack by me...well it's not I was trying to simply point how flawed this Post  really  is.....All of you need to put your EGO's aside play the game worry about YOUR game and let others worry about theres, then thing might run a little smoother  

   

   

  Is it even possible for you to reply to anything without using some sort of abusal? 

  You say that this post of jcgfree could lead to all kind of unsubstantial accusations, but along the way of this topic of yours you are doing nothing else.

   

  How can i put it so even someone a thick as you will get it, Lets see here.....Sorry cant Dumb down enough for you.....Your response just enforces the SMUG  ELITIST  attitude i have been Talking about...  

   

  So proving my point by not making any sound argument, but just calling me smug, thick and dumb and elitist, in whatever contence you place that last one, because that is passing me by compeltely

  Is that all what you have got to say?