Forums

Post Your Worst VEM Here!

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 9:52 AM

  gmaster007:

  first 9 holes played as I played them, boom 29, piece a cake (well not really but still).
  THEN, back 9 I play one shot, and wgt gives me another,
  result: 6 consecutive lousy pars on the card - each one due to VEM.

  Now you're starting to get it. This is exactly how it works and now you have to ask yourself-why did I miss those birdie putts that turned into pars? You had a great front and now you charge into the back 9 thinking you're going to rule and then stuff starts happening.

  Those putts you got away with on the front are missing now.  I know you didn't ding every putt on the front and now it's going to cost you because the game has tightened up and wants to see what you're made of.  YOU missed those putts, WGT didn't. Maybe they put you farther away than you thought they should (you actually did it but we can use WGT's VEM as a scapegoat here) but you had a chance.

  And if you're an off ding putter then WGT has license to steal. You have no case missing the ding-you brought the deviation into play and anything goes.They just made the hole smaller or the tolerances tighter or something-you have to be ready for it and tighten your own game up. You better start making really good shots at that point because the vise has tightened. It sure happens to me. :-)

• gmaster007 2,101 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 10:29 AM

  YankeeJim:

  Those putts you got away with on the front are missing now.  I know you didn't ding every putt on the front and now it's going to cost you because the game has tightened up and wants to see what you're made of.  YOU missed those putts, WGT didn't. Maybe they put you farther away than you thought they should (you actually did it but we can use WGT's VEM as a scapegoat here) but you had a chance.

  I had a long ass reply about why you're wrong with you assumptions,
  and why it's not my putting but rather how the ball lands and how my putting lines
  are ignored and skewed by 30 degrees, but page reloaded on me
  and all that went away. so I'm gonna summarize it quickly by saying
  that if VEM was harder but fair I wouldn't say a word, I love challenges,
  but when it has nothing to do with my shots, it's frustrating
  not because it leaves me 30 footers, but because it's arbitrary
  and has nothing to do with the my choices and strategy,
  which is what this game is all about.

  I don't know why ppl accept and defend this flawed VEM,
  its ruining this game. I'm all for a more challenging game,
  be it VEM or UEL AS LONG AS IT'S DONE RIGHT, which clearly isn't the case here.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 10:37 AM

  gmaster007:

  I had a long ass reply about why you're wrong with you assumptions

  The only thing I assumed was that you didn't ding every putt. Was I wrong?

• jric87 20 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 10:53 AM

  I don't know if this qualifies as a VEM hijack or whatever, but I aimed well left and missed the meter slightly left, so that result was simply impossible. I was just trying to hit a safe shot, as I had a pretty good round going at the time. Check it out:

   

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=8682c3c7-ad4b-4c79-99e4-a1c80089ef4b

• gmaster007 2,101 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 11:12 AM

  YankeeJim:

  gmaster007:

  I had a long ass reply about why you're wrong with you assumptions

  The only thing I assumed was that you didn't ding every putt. Was I wrong?

  no, but you also said:

  YankeeJim:

  YOU missed those putts, WGT didn't.

  
  and thats where I disagree, because if I give it the right aim,
  and give it the ding and it shoots off 30 degrees to the other side,
  that's not me playing it. so even when I missed putts on the front,
  I had the "privilege" of owning my bad putting, would kinda like to be able
  to do that, that's all. right now, when VEM mode is on, it feels more like A/S
  where I have to clean up after my p, the VEM. that's not the way it should be.

  like I said in another thread, I can screw up beautifully sometimes all by myself,
  I really don't need any help doing that.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 11:54 AM

  gmaster007:

  if I give it the right aim,
  and give it the ding and it shoots off 30 degrees to the other side,

  If that happened then you started your putt off on the wrong line. There are plenty of places all over all the courses where if you don't pay attention to the very first 2-3 feet of a putt it takes off in a direction that surprises you. 

  Hindsight is always 20-20. Use it to your advantage.  Understand WHY you missed a putt instead of bemoaning the fact you missed it and getting upset looking for something to blame.

  I am not picking on you but I do see the biggest thing in your way-you. Relax on the expectations, you can't hole every shot. Like your picture, be happy as a clam with that birdie instead of bumming out because it didn't go in. I make a shot like that and I'm looking forward to doing it again . I just have to make it happen, VEM or no VEM.  :-)

• MBaggese 15,378 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 12:30 PM

  YankeeJim:

  If that happened then you started your putt off on the wrong line.

   

  Yep...many times the first few feet really knock a putt off...I've noticed (since using higher scales on the putter) the reaction is much less severe.

• DAZZA501 5,972 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 1:19 PM

  This is how i think vem works.

  There's a scale that goes from shot's in your favor to shots not in your favor. When you start your round you could be anywhere on this scale. If you birdie a hole then the scale moves towards the not in your favor end. If you par a hole then it moves towards the in your favor end. When it gets right to the end of the not in your favor end then that's when the serious wtf moments happen and the scale resets to anywhere on the scale. Likewise with the in your favor end. How many times do we hit a shot that we thought was really bad and end up holing it. Again this resets the vem scale. Now remember it can reset to any point on that scale so you could get another wtf moment straight away or you could get another great shot.

  Interested to see what you all think of this theory, especially YJ.

• BlackGibbon 349 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 2:00 PM

  DAZZA501:

  Likewise with the in your favor end. How many times do we hit a shot that we thought was really bad and end up holing it.

  This is a great point. After all we do not get any posts with the header.....

                 "Bad shots that WGT VEM made good for me"

  Imo gameplay sorts of levels itself out in the end. I can honestly say that the "wow, that shouldn"t have gone anywhere near the hole shot" cancels out all the "WTF!!!!" shots".

                     Al.

  
  

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Jun 25 2013 2:34 PM

  DAZZA501:

  Interested to see what you all think of this theory, especially YJ.

  I think it dramatically simplifies how to look at how your game is affected by VEM because it addresses your own performance. IDK about on a shot by shot basis but it seems as if when you approach that part of a round where you're owning the course and doing better than you usually do, different stuff starts happening. Subtle stuff, like maybe the hole shrinking and you having to be dead nuts perfect to sink anything. Or that intentional miss into the wind becomes a legit deviation based on the missed hit. Stuff like that.

  I've started Merion with 4 birdies and thought "here it comes-be aware" and invariably, absolutely invariably I do something not perfect and don't get away with it. It always comes down to what I did. If VEM is at work there-making it harder for me-then I make it easy for it to actually happen by not being perfect, or better than I've shown to be in that situation. Those 4 birdies to start get me pars on the next 2 or 3 holes and then either I relax or the scale swings in my favor and I get the birdie-par streak going.

  The maddening part is trying to understand how to improve what I call your VEM profile or get a better scale in your scenario. It has to be in the stats and improving them is probably how you do it.